Balance changes and ideas.

[Asvarox]

Never meant to heat the discussion up in first place, I am sorry if you feel offended.

1) Secondary fire has 1400 speed. How is that ridiculous? It's just a bit faster than pulse rifle, with 1sec repeat it's not really useful, sometimes you might kill a dretch if you get lucky, but most of times you'd better just charge a little bit and let the splash damage do its job. May look dangerous on paper, in game - it's not.

2) Luci can hit tyrant bad? Where's the issue? That's the most powerful weapon in humans arsenal it's supposed to hit aliens bad. Skilled human with luci can kill a rant? Where's the issue? He earned it. Skilled rant (or any alien TBH) should rather be able to avoid (yes, it is possible, luci is not a hitscan weapon) it.

In general, lucifer cannon might use some tweaking, though you re exaggerating the issue.

3) Ask granger to build an egg near where you want to regen. Ask someone to go lisk. Or simply return to base to heal. You can't rant camp anymore, sorry.

4) Getting more armor while crouching doesn't make much sense. I'd suggest to start using new movement features like limited dodge and improvements like stamina boost.

If I understood you correctly, you've been introduced to GPP/Unv gamplay just recently. Isn't it a bit too early?

[DeathByMe]

You are correct, i am a very long time 1.1 player (since gamearena was the only real played servers, maybe 5 years ago?), but having played it so long, i have just never noticed any imbalances, and the biggest issue i had when play GPP was when i went from ADV goon to tyrant, i felt like a spastic, because you lose so much, just to gain 100hp, and the regen is so pathetic, i just feel that the regen of the tyrant, or the max hp should be raised, and the lucy projectile lowered, because its incredibly fast. i think 1200 would be fast enough, and 500 for fully charged. also i think the charge time should be lowered, remembering that this is in alpha developement, if you change the lucy, and it isnt good, they can change it back, alpha is there for forgivable mistakes, and to learn the best balances, i just think those balance changes should be tested again, for the best resulting game. if it doesn't turn out better, well hey, they have tested it, no harm done.

[Kreative]

I am confused, are you talking about GPPs balance or Unvanquished?

On terms of Unvanquished balance/Your original post(?), I feel that the "crouch bug/gameplay feature" should stay far, far, far, far away from Unvanquished. It would render the dragoon pretty useless, considering that it doesn't have anywhere near enough of a chomp repeat to be viable against more than one human, (which, for it's purpose, should be able to take on at least more than one human). It's also not realistic, I mean, I can't crouch in front of moving bus or a lion and miraculously be saved! And honestly, 2-3 decent light armour + shotguns could take out a goon pretty easy.

I agree with you on Tyrant, it's quite nerfed, I find it's current state like a grounded goon that deals slightly more damage and has better range with 350 hp. Imo, I think the claw range should be in between 1.1s and the current Unvanquished's state, give or take. I don't think 400 hp should be used, and if the Tyrant were to be increased in hp, I say 375 max. Also I wouldn't mind if the healing aura for the Tyrant were to come back, but the Basilisk healing aura should stay and it should not be as strong as the Basilisk's aura.

I don't agree with your statement that says the Lucifer cannon doesn't take anywhere as much skill as it did in 1.1. Bear in mind, the Unvanquished luci deals very little splash damage compared to 1.1 (and the itemtoggle blaster exploit is also fixed, but not everyone uses it). As well as that, I think (but I'm not too sure so somebody correct me) the Lucifer cannon ball is a less wide than it was in GPP, or atleast it feels like it is when I use it. Also the bots are sort of iffy still and are being worked on, so you'll probably have a harder time going against real players. :p

//offtopic
Also, we can't exactly gameplay test with 24 bots and a couple real players on each teams, let's start some pugs!

[Anomalous]

Another thing that i have noticed is the hugely increased projectile speed for the lucifer cannon, which reduces heaps of skill with the weapon, where it used to take a lot of practise to use the Lucifer Cannon, and not once you have hit S3, the game is completely in humans favour, where the lucifer got buffed, and tyrants got nerfed.

The minimum and maximum speeds are currently exactly those used in GPP, and the projectile speed (as mentioned elsewhere in this thread) is scaled such that the more powerful the shot, the slower it travels.

There's also power fall-off, which is targetted at those who would lucispam; with this, the lucifer cannon is more useful as a medium-range weapon (or close-range if you don't mind the splash damage).

[seana11]

I disagree that balance is skewed in favor of humans. If you look at the balence of maps on the main trem server, there are only two maps where the humans have more than 50% of wins, in the first 18 maps. Everything below has been played less than 150 times, total. If anything, new changes should be introduced to change the balance back to 50/.50.

[Asvarox]

Of course nothing's is written on stone, and I don't mind trying different settings to see how they work. Only problem is that currently there aren't much people actually playing it, I talked about it with Kaine quite a long time ago. IIRC we were supposed to have those planned dev games held, though I guess nothing official about it was stated yet.

Kreative currently changes made in Unvanquished aren't really significant yet (especially with luci/rant), it's really similar to GPP. Of course I was relating to Unvanquished gameplay.
As for tyrant healing aura, I repeat myself - I'm strongly against. That'd just bring back the 1.1 rantcamp issue. You still get quite decent regen speed just by standing on creep, not to mention booster.

[seana11]

Kreative currently changes made in Unvanquished aren't really significant yet (especially with luci/rant), it's really similar to GPP. Of course I was relating to Unvanquished gameplay.
As for tyrant healing aura, I repeat myself - I'm strongly against. That'd just bring back the 1.1 rantcamp issue. You still get quite decent regen speed just by standing on creep, not to mention booster.

^^

[Kreative]

Kreative currently changes made in Unvanquished aren't really significant yet (especially with luci/rant), it's really similar to GPP. Of course I was relating to Unvanquished gameplay.

The changes are small, but I wouldn't say insignificant. :p Of course, a bunch more changes will be coming in the future, but with the gameplay right now, I say it's more balanced the GPP and 1.1. But I definitely am looking forward to future changes.

I disagree that balance is skewed in favor of humans. If you look at the balence of maps on the main trem server, there are only two maps where the humans have more than 50% of wins, in the first 18 maps. Everything below has been played less than 150 times, total. If anything, new changes should be introduced to change the balance back to 50/.50.

It's near impossible to have true 50/50 balance, considering there's many different players, skill levels, and play styles. Besides, those stats are from GPP, and that's just silly!

[seana11]

The changes are small, but I wouldn't say insignificant. :p Of course, a bunch more changes will be coming in the future, but with the gameplay right now, I say it's more balanced the GPP and 1.1. But I definitely am looking forward to future changes.

It's near impossible to have true 50/50 balance, considering there's many different players, skill levels, and play styles. Besides, those stats are from GPP, and that's just silly!

Yes, but unv is pretty much a bunch of models for gpp, atm. Anyway, the stats for unv are skewed due to the rampant bots.

[WhiteTech]

The crouch is not a bug. It's an armor modifier. Original Trem always had this. GPP it was tweaked to add even more of an armor mod.

As for Luci. Yes it is ridiculous, but seeing as most aliens can one or 2 hit kill un-armored, and rants can one hit kill EVERTHING with trample it make sense.

But they tweaked it a bit too much. It's wayyyyy to fast.

As for basis, I don't really re-call Rants having a healing aura like the basis do now.... I really do like the basi healing aura, it's a nice gameplay feature