Idea: Entirely different game progression system

[Whales]

This was originally posted in the dev section, but due to the busy schedule of the developers, it really didn't get much feedback, so I've posted it here for public feedback and ridicule.

This is an attempt to realize the statement that Unvanquished's gameplay would depart entirely from the gameplay of Tremulous and become its own, better game. These changes are meant to give the game a true sense of progression, hopefully nullifying the need for timelimits or sudden death or other artificial and unnatural means of ending the game.

A huge problem in the current gameplay is the staleness that develops over time. Progress is too sudden and has no depth or variety.

The "stage" system offers no depth or variety to games, and currently serves only as a way to make sure that a team that is behind has some tangible disadvantage. Advantages can be completely nullified by camping for a few minutes.

POTENTIAL SOLUTION: A new evolution system (and more!)

Player progress could be made through leveling, team progress would rely on the progress of individual players.

Players would have certain specifications to put points into to advance their character in the manner they think would best suit the map they're on and the specifications of the team they're playing against.

Some examples:
Aliens could have three types of body specs, light frame, medium frame, and heavy frame. Each body spec has five levels, which exaggerate the effect of the specification. Certain levels may offer additional perks. Light frame offers increased speed and jump height with each level, but offers little to no bonus health. Medium frame offers some bonus health a little bit of move speed, but will not make you particularly tanky or quick. Large frame would offer a great deal of health, but would lower movespeed and jump height.

Abilities like pounce, wall-crawl, wall-jump, and trample could all be evolved with any level-up, but you only get one choice on it.

Evolution points would still exist, but be used more as currency. Players could trade in say, 15 evolution points for a "Hivemind Enhancement" that gives them a weak healing aura to increase the regenerative abilities of themselves and thier teammates. Players can hold a limited number of these items to decide whether they want to play a tanky healer who buffs teammates with auras and soaks up bullets, or a fast and marauding glass cannon who you can't seem to hit.

The idea is relatively similar for humans. They could spec into unarmored, light armor, or heavy armored. Scout would give the player huge speed and stamina boosts, but would decrease the effectiveness of armor on them; at higher levels, it could offer an unlimited stamina perk at the cost of being able to equip armorand heavy weapons as well as a health reduction. Soldier would slightly increase health, stamina, and reduce gun spread. Juggernaut would allow the equipping of heavy armors and battlesuits and increase health by a good deal, but would greatly slow the player and increase stamina usage. Level 5 Juggernaut could eliminate heavy weapon recoil.

Humans would also have a currency, allowing them to buy items from the armory. Weapons would be bought once to be unlocked, and could be swapped freely at the armory once bought. The shotgun may have an upgrade like "Uranium Slug", which gives shotguns single-slug shots instead of having pellets. The slug would greatly reduce the effect of alien armor, as the armor would only apply once.

The switch from one-life upgrades to permanent upgrades would allow teams to snowball an advantage if they're playing better, and eventually lead to a victory or loss without the need of a timer or sudden death to intervene.

Alien and human structures would be made stronger to make the early game safer and to match the new-found strength of the players. Build points would be static though; once something has been destroyed, you don't get it back.

The sum of these changes is a more deliberate game, with concequences for actions and true advantages for a winning team, as well as a game with greater depth for players who want to theorycraft or try something out of the ordinary.

From the dev thread:

How would you allow people to join an ongoing game without staying weak for the duration of the game? Currently dretches can poison-suicide and humans can support (or camp) for a short duration, which helps them to get the same resources as any of their teammates quickly.

Ideally, none of the upgrades should be so strong that newly joining players can't at least help with kills in some way.
As well, players could level heavily into poison or something else to make sure they get at least some damage done.

Sticking near the more powerful static defense would also be a fairly reliable way to get kills and experience, assuming the other team is aggressing.
If the other team is playing defensively, you could buy support upgrades, giving you experience or evos/credits for buffing your teammates and helping the game progress.

Please post your thoughts, grievances, ideas, or any questions you may have.

[Whales]

A few other core things I think would pair really well with this:

- Armor and armor penetration stats
Giving aliens the option to get armor as the game goes on actually creates the ability to give the humans' weapon arsenal greater depth. Many people complain about how the rifle, a free weapon that you have from the get-go, is basically the end-all be-all of human weaponry. Giving the aliens -3 damage per hit would massively cut the DPS of a vanilla rifle, forcing the switch to either burst-damage weapons that apply the armor stat less often, or requiring a weapon that has armor penetration (do I smell a LasGun niche?) to be used.

- Bullet-saving reload
This is more of a conforming to FPS standards and personal opinion sort of idea, but I feel like bullet-saving reload fits the style of play in Tremulous better than bullet-wasting reload does. Reload time should be extended to make reloading a more dangerous activity in the heat of battle, but the bullets should save, allowing the humans to stay out and away from base for longer periods of time. This change improves play for both teams, as it saves humans from the annoyance of having to go back to base so often, but it also gives the aliens more time to position, flank, and ambush.

- Share that health-pack!
Human teammates should be able to assist their teammates' longevity just the same as aliens can with regen-boosting auras. If a more skilled player thinks they can survive without the medipack, but needs more DPS with him, he can give up his safety net and heal a teammate instead of himself in hopes of being able to get more done with two medipack-less humans than one healing human. Conversely, less-skilled players could hang back and heal the more-skilled players to allow for relentless aggression from one target.

I'll assuredly post more ideas as they come to me, but I've seemingly run myself dry for the time being.

[janev]

Pretty interesting stuff here. I could see a real time strategy type of tech tree working. You have the basic classes and depending on how you play the game/ the choices you make you end up at a different part of the tech tree at the end of the game and when you evolve.

One way of doing it would be a stage system that automatically gives your team bonuses that reflect the way you have played the game.
-Alien example: If most of the kills come from heavy units you would get a boost to health points, if the kills come from basilisks you would get a stealth bonus (in this role the invisible-on-radar basi might work), if the kills come from marauders you get speed bonuses, if they come from dretches you get better poison to help fend off the humans that are owning your team. You could also allow for more advanced versions of the core units to be unlocked depending on how the team gains stages. Only one of the core units can fully evolve at a time.
-Human example: energy weapon damage boost, armor penetrating ammo damage boost, hardened base defenses

For individual variation you could do a similar thing where the individual gets to choose a focus as they get better.
-For example a marauder focusing on the secondary attack would have faster and stronger zaps but a weaker primary attack. Conversely a marauder focusing on primary would bite faster and harder but not be as good at zapping.
-The idea with different size frames would also work but you don't necessarily have to leave that up to the player to decide. You could spawn randomly with different kinds of strengths and weaknesses that force you to play that card to the best of your ability. A small framed dretch would have to rely on stealth to make it and wouldn't therefore be well served evolving into a goon.
-Humans could have different classes, recon for speed, juggernaut for health. etc

On a totally unrelated note humans could drop their ammo for friends to pick up when they die and aliens could cannibalize dead aliens for hp.

[Whales]

The team bonuses sound like an interesting idea, for sure, but it might cause pub-game weirdness if you want to play a tanky beast, and the three bottom players on your team constantly whine "omg no noob we need mara speed bonus".

Something I'm not sure if I made clear enough in the OP is that there would be no pre-defined classes. You could get what is now essentially a marauder by putting three points in light frame, two in heavy, choosing walljump for your movement evolution, and buying hivemind enhancements that boost your attack speed. There could be a recommended build list that includes the marauder for new players to get ideas from, but not a defined set of classes.

I like the idea of humans dropping ammo packs, maybe as a consumable item purchase. The cannibalizing sounds okay, but it would definitely need to take five or six seconds where you're vulnerable while doing it. Perhaps they can't do it unless they evolve it as a utility.

[seana11]

I like (Will add more tomorrow)

[janev]

The team bonuses sound like an interesting idea, for sure, but it might cause pub-game weirdness if you want to play a tanky beast, and the three bottom players on your team constantly whine "omg no noob we need mara speed bonus".

Something I'm not sure if I made clear enough in the OP is that there would be no pre-defined classes. You could get what is now essentially a marauder by putting three points in light frame, two in heavy, choosing walljump for your movement evolution, and buying hivemind enhancements that boost your attack speed. There could be a recommended build list that includes the marauder for new players to get ideas from, but not a defined set of classes.

I like the idea of humans dropping ammo packs, maybe as a consumable item purchase. The cannibalizing sounds okay, but it would definitely need to take five or six seconds where you're vulnerable while doing it. Perhaps they can't do it unless they evolve it as a utility.

Aaah ok, I didn't catch that. I suppose that could work but it would be tricky to balance. A few days after release there would be build orders and powergaming strategies online that limit the actual choices available to players if they want to succeed. Like in the elder scrolls you would quickly gimp your player if you chose the wrong route. I was thinking along different lines. You have the classes and they can either focus on their primary or seconday ability. Luck determines the individual attributes or hivemind enhancements as you call them.

[ViruS]

I'm fine with some of these ideas [although they've been talked about in the past several times, whether unvanquished or tremulous] as long as it has a way where the team can't screw up because a noob joins their team and decides to use the credit points on upgrading something not worth it.

[KenuR]

I've already suggested a similar perk system somewhere, but I don't remember it getting any responses. In any case, I'm all for it.

[janev]

Check out the wesnoth traits system

[seana11]

Check out the wesnoth traits system

Wesnoth has a really good way to have things set up. It's simple, but allows for complex combinations.