Get rid of console completely and forever

[lamefun]

Ideally the initial configuration dialog should contain nothing except nickname.

Look at Red Eclipse. Even though it does have minor Global Government inspired anti-features (high respawn delay, hiding options that improve contrast), it's the least malicious open-source shooter: you can download it, enter your nick and join! You'll never need to change any option other than mouse sensitivity.

As for mouse sensitivity, I propose TWO GREAT PETITIONS: mice should report their DPI to the OS, OSes should provide ways to get mouse input without built-in OS acceleration, so games can have their mouse sensitivity options in degrees per centimeter, so the default settings is usable with both high and low DPI mice.

[seana11]

You'll never need to change any option other than mouse sensitivity

I would never want to change my resolution or keybindings!

[lamefun]

Want =/= need. You can still play quite normally with lower resolution and the default keybindings are quite good. In Tremulous, no buy binds ---> stand near armoury ---> die, die, die, medkit on M ---> die, die, die, scroll wheel + middle mouse for grenades and jetpack ---> die, die, die while trying to use them.

[seana11]

Want =/= need. You can still play quite normally with lower resolution and the default keybindings are quite good. In Tremulous, no buy binds ---> stand near armoury ---> die, die, die, medkit on M ---> die, die, die, scroll wheel + middle mouse for grenades and jetpack ---> die, die, die while trying to use them.

640x480 is not something I can play with normally on an lcd. I also like to use c for crouch, which is not always the default. If that is changed, I've essentially lost my ability to crouch. I know people who use m2 for jump in the style of quake.

[lamefun]

640x480 is not something I can play with normally on an lcd. I also like to use c for crouch, which is not always the default. If that is changed, I've essentially lost my ability to crouch. I know people who use m2 for jump in the style of quake.

OK, so this game also needs better default resolution & image quality detection. But I guess using something higher than 640x480 and with right aspect ratio should suffice. A game that can't be played normally right after installing is already DEAD!

Red Eclipse allows you to change keys too, but it has sane defaults. I said nothing about removal of options. On the contrary, good GUI will make options more accessible.

[seana11]

OK, so this game also needs better default resolution & image quality detection. But I guess using something higher than 640x480 and with right aspect ratio should suffice. A game that can't be played normally right after installing is already DEAD!

Forst of all, about 50% of games I install don't use the video configuration that I like. Second of all, tf2 needed some customizing before it would work properly for me as well, and it's definitely not dead.

Red Eclipse allows you to change keys too, but it has sane defaults. I said nothing about removal of options. On the contrary, good GUI will make options more accessible.

You'll never need to change any option other than mouse sensitivity

Sane defaults don't work in insane environments. (Aka, my not-so-common resolution monitor)

[lamefun]

Forst of all, about 50% of games I install don't use the video configuration that I like. Second of all, tf2 needed some customizing before it would work properly for me as well, and it's definitely not dead.

If it doesn't work for you, it doesn't mean it doesn't work for most people. But in Tremulous many of the default settings don't work for anyone.

In what % of cases the video configuration does not just differ from your preferences, but is completely, utterly useless (wrong aspect ratio, way too low, etc.)?

Does TF2 have default controls that makes players play much, much worse than they could with custom controls? (Trem has medkit on m, the manual says use it if less than 70 hp (so right after first bite), but if you ever let go of WASD in the middle of a battle ---> dead)

Also, paid games can afford suboptimal defaults, as leaving a game you paid for because of settings you can easily (not so easy in Tremulous, especially binds) change is a complete waste.

Sane defaults don't work in insane environments. (Aka, my not-so-common resolution monitor)

Not if they are determined from the insane environments themselves. SDL (the library behing graphics in Unvanquished) can read all possible screen modes and choose a default resolution that matches your aspect ratio. That just needs to be fixed.

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OK, this topic has been completely derailed into the discussion of defaults. Back on topic.

P.S. Some of the default configuration problems can't be properly solved (particulary mouse sensitivity and keyboard binds, most important ones) because of OS and hardware limitations. See this thread.

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Yes, the game needs sane defaults that work for most people, but it also needs ACCESSIBLE means to customize what you are not comfortable with.

Do you have any customizations that were done in console and would be impossible to do in the current GUI? I personally have buy binds that buy me appropriate armor and upgrades for each weapon (battpack for prifle, bsuit for chaingun), different bindings for each team, (Alt for human sprint and alien wallwalk). Without Alt for both wallwalk and sprint Tremulous would be completely unplayable for me.

I propose the removal of the console, so developers and potential have motivation to implement GUI. It's far too easy to do what you want in the console and forget that you ever needed it. I imagine that making GUIs will be easy after librocket integration.

The command engine can probably stay as the backend for the GUI, but the console itself (the thing that slides down when you press [ ` ]) should be removed for good. So should the ability to bind keys to console commands (so people aren't tempted just to edit autoexec.cfg and be content with it). Everything (or mostly everything) you can put into autoexec.cfg should be reproducable with GUI.

I fully understand that this game is developed entirely by volunteers, but don't you developers want it to have more players?

[seana11]

In what % of cases the video configuration does not just differ from your preferences, but is completely, utterly useless (wrong aspect ratio, way too low, etc.)?

As I said, 50%. It either ends up being 640x480 (which is waaay too low and looks crappy to the point of unplayability), or starts with the correct resolution, but in windowed mode, so the bottom portion of the screen is cut off (usually with crucial info such as hp and ammo).

Does TF2 have default controls that makes players play much, much worse than they could with custom controls? (Trem has medkit on m, the manual says use it if less than 70 hp (so right after first bite), but if you ever let go of WASD in the middle of a battle ---> dead)

Actually, it kindof does. The default fov is set at 70, instead of the highest 90, hitsounds are turned off by default, damage numbers are turned off by default, and weapon models are way larger than they need to be. The keybinds are sane in the case, but those who use c for crouch will have to adjust it or else they won't have that functionality (which is very important in tf2).

[lamefun]

As I said, 50%. It either ends up being 640x480 (which is waaay too low and looks crappy to the point of unplayability), or starts with the correct resolution, but in windowed mode, so the bottom portion of the screen is cut off (usually with crucial info such as hp and ammo).

Actually, it kindof does. The default fov is set at 70, instead of the highest 90, hitsounds are turned off by default, damage numbers are turned off by default, and weapon models are way larger than they need to be. The keybinds are sane in the case, but those who use c for crouch will have to adjust it or else they won't have that functionality (which is very important in tf2).

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fov is set at 70

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highest 90

?????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...... ......... ........ ........ ....... ....... ........ ..... ...........

THis CAn't BE!!!

Valve!!!

Proprietary!!!!

CaN't BEEE!!!

...... ....... .. ...... .. ....... . .... .. .... ... .. ..... ..... ...... ....

That's way too low, I guess?

And I thought that 90 is too low for Xonotic and it should use 110 by default...

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Guess my assumption proprietary and by big corporation = perfect in every single way doesn't work... Anyone has a better one?

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[seana11]

It actually makes a really big difference. In tf2 the amount of enemies you can see is really important, and especially for spies who could be trying to backstab you. That 20 degrees there makes a big difference and is really noticable when you watch videos of people playing with 70.