Build points considerations

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Marietto
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Build points considerations

Postby Marietto » Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:15 pm UTC

Hi, I think it is right to think about drills and especially on leechs, since it creates excessive eggspam, which would damage the clanwar, or on large maps with few players it gives a huge advantage to the aliens, and it is almost impossible to win.
I would propose to have initial 100bp to exploit for the initial base, with a more accelerated bp recovery, and a 3 drill / leech limit with the current percentage, recovery and bp conditions, but with a limited build radius.
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Gireen
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Re: Build points considerations

Postby Gireen » Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:24 pm UTC

What would be the benefit of eggspam?
humans can just destroy them and aliens waste there build points.
fear ma engrish :granger:
Marietto
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Re: Build points considerations

Postby Marietto » Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:17 am UTC

When playing with real players and not bots, remember that aliens can build on walls too, and there are enemies too. When you play this, it is exhausting to play and find all the eggs scattered on a large map, especially as now that there are few active players. If it were in a 15vs15 I wouldn't mind it, but I specified that for clan wars (type tremulous, which ranged on average from 3vs3, 4vs4 or at most 5vs5), and now that there are few players, the eggspam contributes a lot on the side of the aliens.
Maybe if the server detect an increase in real players playing, it could increase the number of drills / leechs that can be build.
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Gireen
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Re: Build points considerations

Postby Gireen » Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:30 pm UTC

For what maps would you see this as problem? Or witch maps do you consider as large?

It seems the problem lies more in playing large maps with few players, witch obliviously increases the time one can run around without seeing enemys.
But humans can also build more so they could secure bigger parts of a map with many turrets.
fear ma engrish :granger:
Marietto
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Re: Build points considerations

Postby Marietto » Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:25 am UTC

For me 2 examples is jota and usstremor, and here you can eggspam.
freem
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Re: Build points considerations

Postby freem » Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:13 pm UTC

I think an important word here is: clanwar.

I think clanwars needs a "dedicated" mod, with minor tweaks like that to improve the competition balance of the game, since I suppose clanwars are done with a powerful tool: mumble for most players, which helps greatly in establishing strategies.
The suggested changes would probably prevent a team to recover or rebirth in smaller maps, when games started with bots (the usual case).
Keep in mind that most of the time, servers are empty. I'd love to see clanwars, for sure, since it can only help, but we really need to make the game better at bootstrapping for now (my opinion only, of course).

In my opinion, we need some kind of support for voting both a map, and a mod (applied to the map) for one of the next versions.
Marietto
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Re: Build points considerations

Postby Marietto » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:51 am UTC

For example, last night we played on Arachnid (tremulous map), I played all the time destroying spammed leechs around the map. Final results? Human lost.
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Re: Build points considerations

Postby freem » Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:31 pm UTC

Marietto wrote:For example, last night we played on Arachnid (tremulous map), I played all the time destroying spammed leechs around the map. Final results? Human lost.


I'm not sure it's the map I'm thinking of, but yes, some maps allow aliens to hide well.
I don't think it's always worth hunting miners, tbh, it's better to destroy real buildings, since the buildpoints won't magically, instantly, return to the pool, and they will even need more time to do so when game grows old.
When it's old enough, and you destroyed enough buildings, destroying miners (and not buildings) can even turn the tides, since this will disable buildings. The only problem I see here, is that I have no clue about how that really works, and I suspect this is true for most (if not all) people still playing.
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cu-kai
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Re: Build points considerations

Postby cu-kai » Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:33 am UTC

Much of the building spam on Tremulous is solved by having a sudden death time set on the server. Indeed, games on Tremulous have sudden death at 15 minutes yet games can still sometimes go on for longer than an hour. I find fighting on unvq frustrating when there's no SD because the enemy will just rebuild the base quickly.
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Gireen
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Re: Build points considerations

Postby Gireen » Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:32 pm UTC

With the current system miners get less efficient over time and the recovery of bp becomes slower.
That ends most of the time with many negative buildpoints, which is intended as replacement of Sudden Death.
But i think no one knows how this really works or when it happens, making it more of a slow and painfull death. :bugeyes:
It also makes teams spam miners late game cause they have a high bp debt.

One could make it late game easier to destroy buildings. Maybe rewarding it with money/evos, or making buildings weaker over time.
fear ma engrish :granger:

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