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Humans are way OP

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constatinus
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:32 pm UTC

Humans are way OP

Postby constatinus » Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:33 pm UTC

MG turrets acctually do *something* (3 of them can prevent a maraurder from coming), acid tubes don't. They require assistance from the aliens because humans can shoot them from range and they cannot do the opposite. They are not so much ranged. Useless if you place them in a corner that is impossible to find on most maps. 6 mgs can kill a tyrant easily, but a human with a flamethrower can kill up to 10 acid tubes/ spikers / 3 hives and even come out alive! Speaking of hives, they don't chase the enemy for too long.. Also, when fighting a human, it's hard to kill them even if it's a bot especialy with them moving left and right. It would make much more sense to just "swipe" and to the attack, not point and click and hope that he didn't move away. Also, shotgun is very OP. It is a close range weapon, and considering that aliens are also close range and if you move left-right- they won't hit you at all but if you fire about 4/3 direct shots with a shotgun you will pretty much kill them. Is there any way to balance this out?
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GORE
Dretch
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:17 pm UTC

Re: Humans are way OP

Postby GORE » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:36 am UTC

First rule: Never morph into Tyrant. Even developers know that because the unit is broken and has been many years and they seem to not know how to fix it.
If you think your Alien team having control of the game and wants to end the game, think again. Humans start camping and builds mass turrets on top of that so expect 20-30min longer game. At this time I just quit game because its too annoying.

Game is boring and devs keep promising that gameplay will be fixed.
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Viech
Project Head
Posts: 2137
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:50 pm UTC
Location: Berlin

Re: Humans are way OP

Postby Viech » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:45 pm UTC

We didn't promise anything like that, because the gameplay is not as broken as both of you suggest. We have played tournaments and lots of development games since we diverged from the somewhat balanced Tremulous and balance was always fine for an in-development game. I suspect aliens are simply much harder to learn because prior shooter experience only benefits the human side, and right now there are not enough matches and more experienced players to learn from. I would agree that the Tyrant needs a rework (it was never really useful in attacking bases while it should be) and that aliens could use more anti-buildable area of effect attacks to punish tight clusters in general. The fact that aliens need to actively defend their base while the human base can defend itself is actually a necessity to balance the alien's ridiculously high mobility and map control.
Responsible for: Arch Linux package & torrent distribution, Parpax (map), Chameleon (map texture editor), Sloth (material file generator), gameplay design & programming, artistic direction
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freem
Mantis
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:02 pm UTC

Re: Humans are way OP

Postby freem » Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:18 am UTC

For the record, so that this thread can be answered because those concerns are common.

Viech wrote:We didn't promise anything like that, because the gameplay is not as broken as both of you suggest. We have played tournaments and lots of development games since we diverged from the somewhat balanced Tremulous and balance was always fine for an in-development game. I suspect aliens are simply much harder to learn because prior shooter experience only benefits the human side, and right now there are not enough matches and more experienced players to learn from. I would agree that the Tyrant needs a rework (it was never really useful in attacking bases while it should be) and that aliens could use more anti-buildable area of effect attacks to punish tight clusters in general. The fact that aliens need to actively defend their base while the human base can defend itself is actually a necessity to balance the alien's ridiculously high mobility and map control.


While I know I'm resurrecting an old thread, I want to comment a bit here, because, well, I do have same feelings as author here, especially in 0.51, and in servers configured to have teams of 3 vs 3 when bots are needed.

** I suspect aliens are simply much harder to learn **

They clearly are. This is a problem, though, because it means nobody will enjoy starting as alien. There are also, at the time I'm writing, bugs which were spotted in 0.51, and some are fixed in 0.52 which favor humans.

The feeling also comes from the fact human bots suffer no recoil, and even prevent alien players to build hidden defenses: they do have wall-hacks.

** right now there are not enough matches and more experienced players to learn from. **

A way to improve that situation would be to have wiki pages describing hints. There is clearly a lot of (non-voluntarily) hidden knowledge in the game. I think sharing is caring, and would make it easier to play aliens.
There is, anyway, a really valid criticism: dretches can hardly destroy a lone turret, while a human with a smg can destroy an overmind.

** I would agree that the Tyrant needs a rework **

Yes, please. But... there are 2 problems here.
1) it's rare to have 3 vs 3, and game balance is not made for less human players per team. Most broken are the 2 vs 1, because the team of 2 can build with one covering.
2) there is no document describing the intended gameplay, on which we should base balancing discussions :)

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