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Health Armor and damage zones

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Gireen
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Health Armor and damage zones

Postby Gireen » Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:02 pm UTC

I would suggest that we remove or disable armor and damage zones for the moment and instead increase health of humans instead.

The benefits would be:
  • its easier for new players that they don't die so fast or deal not much damage.
  • players can easier tell how much more health they will have with armor and how effective it is (this could maybe also solve why no one wears armor)
  • it becomes fairer. Aliens have only short range weapons but are expected to hit relative small targets for maximum damage. compared to humans with long range weapons where it doesn't matter where they hit an alien.
The part about missing player knowledge is something i can also say from own experience. While looking into the config files i found how unexpected big the difference in damage zones.

naked human

Code: Select all

head  1.5
back  1.0
chest 1.0
legs  0.6

light armor

Code: Select all

head  0.8
back  0.5
chest 0.35
legs  0.25

bsuit

Code: Select all

head  0.4
torso 0.2
legs  0.15


Legs are the lower 50% of humans. I don't wonder anymore why dretches deal so little damage to battlesuits. :bugeyes:
I still like the idea to have some damage bonus for head shots, but i think the effect should be not that big.
fear ma engrish :granger:
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killing time
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Re: Health Armor and damage zones

Postby killing time » Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:48 pm UTC

Legs are the lower 50% of humans. I don't wonder anymore why dretches deal so little damage to battlesuits.

The head to legs damage ratio for bsuit (2.67) is significantly lower than that for larmour (3.20), and just slightly higher than for naked (2.5), so it doesn't seems like bsuit is especially punishing for leg bites.
I am surprised to see how many different zones there are though. I always thought there were three, and they were the same for all classes.

instead increase health of humans instead

I remember seeing someone suggesting this before, to have armors increase HP. Not (necessarily) a gameplay change, but rather a UI change, which would make the damage zones (roughly) equal for each class, and make it apparent how much armors increase your health. I'd be okay with that.

Increasing the legs damage modifier a bit is not a bad idea. The cheesy strategy of jumping up and down to reduce damage is perhaps too effective right now, since humans have lots of stamina and even walljumps.

Not sure how I feel about dretch floor headbites. It's certainly absurd from a common-sense perspective. But it gives alien gameplay more variety. If it weren't for floor headshots then dretch would be more similar to mara, where you're always trying to jump at their heads.
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freem
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Re: Health Armor and damage zones

Postby freem » Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:00 pm UTC

While I relate to some of your concerns, I think the measure you propose seems a bit extreme... but I don't know, maybe it's just change resistance.

About armor, I see various pros and cons, which are often mixed:

  • it allows location damages, giving a reason and a reward to aim well, but in practice the game just checks on big hitboxes
  • some weapons seems to not be affected by it, for some unknown (maybe buggy) reason: energy weapons. This mechanics is, I think, interesting and could be improved, maybe extended: have armors to some kind of damages (energy, kinetic, acid/poison, temperature...)
  • only humans benefit from it, it's unfair and makes some of their weapons deadlier when hitting ennemies than themselves (luci, mostly)
  • the implementation is about checking an offset, it's ugly and hackish
  • it have low visual clue, but that's because the "tutorial" system and overall the equipment system information is hardly visible

Overall, I think I'd be fine with removing this mechanism, for now, because it feels buggy, is definitely hackish, and is unfair (because of hackish behavior). When I started this post, I was mostly against, though :)
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killing time
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Re: Health Armor and damage zones

Postby killing time » Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:52 pm UTC

freem wrote:only humans benefit from it, it's unfair and makes some of their weapons deadlier when hitting ennemies than themselves (luci, mostly)

We have a recently merged hack, g_friendlyFireAlienMultiplier which multiplies alien friendly fire by 0.5 (default). This should fix the issue of alien's friendly fire being disproportionately damaging.

freem wrote:the implementation is about checking an offset, it's ugly and hackish

What do you mean? Why does this matter for gameplay design?
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Gireen
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Re: Health Armor and damage zones

Postby Gireen » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:57 pm UTC

I think the way armor is implemented is good enough but the differences in zones are to big.
There can be a reward for attacks on head and punishment for legs but not with a difference from x2.5 - x3
Instead of 50% the difference in both directions should be only 10%.

The endresult should only give a small reward for skilled players.
fear ma engrish :granger:
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Gireen
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Re: Health Armor and damage zones

Postby Gireen » Sat Oct 30, 2021 2:23 pm UTC

It can be tested on the Experimental server for a while now with

Code: Select all

Multipliers for all classes
head 1.2
legs 0.9
rest 1


The effect seems to be really positive. Bots feel less like they are cheating compared to human players.

It reduces also the effect deadliness of more experienced players.

Unvanquished LOVE wrote:wtf 2 hits to kill tier 0 human with adv goon

which is something i see as a positive result :grin:
fear ma engrish :granger:

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