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Build points considerations

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illwieckz
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Re: Build points considerations

Postby illwieckz » Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:08 am UTC

Gireen wrote:One could make it late game easier to destroy buildings […] making buildings weaker over time.

So turrets would rust and acid tubes would rot. :grin:
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Marietto
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Re: Build points considerations

Postby Marietto » Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:30 am UTC

cu-kai wrote:Much of the building spam on Tremulous is solved by having a sudden death time set on the server. Indeed, games on Tremulous have sudden death at 15 minutes yet games can still sometimes go on for longer than an hour. I find fighting on unvq frustrating when there's no SD because the enemy will just rebuild the base quickly.


In Tremulous humans were frequently disadvantaged in SD, because they depend on armory and medistation, which in addition to being two different structures, in some cases could not be reconstructed.

It would have been nice if the armory and medistantion were a unique structure, more resistant and with a higher cost.

For build points, I think about creating sub-build points. Build points would be those available per reactor / overmind, the sub-build points those generated by drill / leech, which perhaps towards the end of the match self-destruct.
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Gireen
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Re: Build points considerations

Postby Gireen » Fri Apr 23, 2021 3:56 pm UTC

illwieckz wrote:So turrets would rust and acid tubes would rot. :grin:

The need for maintenance might be an interesting idea on its own. That turrets lose a bit health when they deal damage.

But back to the topic.
@Marietto so your suggestion would be to abandon the miners and have the same principle of eggs and repeaters from tremulous again.
With a maximal number of outpost with each having there own fixed pool of available build points.

I think there was once a tremulous mod with exactly this principle, but i cant remember if it was good or bad. :confused:

At the first glance that system seems not better or worse than miners just a different approach. Being able to build freely feels nice and makes it easier to use than an imaginary sphere around an outpost. On the other hand placing miners is more or less the same problem to visualize. Hunting miners is interesting but provides not much reward.
fear ma engrish :granger:
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cu-kai
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Re: Build points considerations

Postby cu-kai » Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:21 pm UTC

Marietto wrote:
cu-kai wrote:Much of the building spam on Tremulous is solved by having a sudden death time set on the server. Indeed, games on Tremulous have sudden death at 15 minutes yet games can still sometimes go on for longer than an hour. I find fighting on unvq frustrating when there's no SD because the enemy will just rebuild the base quickly.


In Tremulous humans were frequently disadvantaged in SD, because they depend on armory and medistation, which in addition to being two different structures, in some cases could not be reconstructed.

It would have been nice if the armory and medistantion were a unique structure, more resistant and with a higher cost.

For build points, I think about creating sub-build points. Build points would be those available per reactor / overmind, the sub-build points those generated by drill / leech, which perhaps towards the end of the match self-destruct.


The current popular server on Tremulous, Der Bunker, allows the human team to rebuild the armoury, medistation and defence computer after SD has passed, so long as they had one before SD started. We find that this works quite well.

Same goes for the alien team and their booster.
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Marietto
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Re: Build points considerations

Postby Marietto » Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:16 am UTC

cu-kai wrote:
The current popular server on Tremulous, Der Bunker, allows the human team to rebuild the armoury, medistation and defence computer after SD has passed, so long as they had one before SD started. We find that this works quite well.

Same goes for the alien team and their booster.


Ok, but consider that humans have the handicap of building two primary structures, plus the waiting to recover all the build points to rebuild them, while the aliens have one structure, with fewer build points.

I don't know in off topic, have you noticed that if you build a drill and a nearby leech, they decrease the bp capacity? (not 2 drill/leech)
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cu-kai
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Re: Build points considerations

Postby cu-kai » Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:21 pm UTC

Marietto wrote:
cu-kai wrote:
The current popular server on Tremulous, Der Bunker, allows the human team to rebuild the armoury, medistation and defence computer after SD has passed, so long as they had one before SD started. We find that this works quite well.

Same goes for the alien team and their booster.

plus the waiting to recover all the build points to rebuild them, while the aliens have one structure, with fewer build points.


On Bunker, all build points are returned almost instantly when the structure dies.
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afontain
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Re: Build points considerations

Postby afontain » Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:51 am UTC

Marietto wrote:
I don't know in off topic, have you noticed that if you build a drill and a nearby leech, they decrease the bp capacity? (not 2 drill/leech)


Yup, that is known, and possibly intended: they will compete for the build points. Given the comment here, I think it's on purpose :smile: https://github.com/Unvanquished/Unvanqu ... nt.cpp#L81

Some players were talking about siege leechs that would agressively disable human buildables using a similar mechanics. Maybe it would be cool to force the human players out. But maybe it would make mechanism overcomplicated. That's still to figure out!
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Gireen
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Re: Build points considerations

Postby Gireen » Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:14 pm UTC

Yes we had the discussion somewhere and i tried it.
Spamming miners around the enemy base makes both teams lose BPs but the one with map control can afford it.
It works so good that i don't do it anymore. :grin:
Most players don't know about this or how miners in general work so they don't realize what happens and just get frustrate by not having any BP
fear ma engrish :granger:

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