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add a mechanism to prevent people change team to destroy base

Request new features or present your ideas.
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freem
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add a mechanism to prevent people change team to destroy base

Postby freem » Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:50 pm UTC

Currently, it's possible for a player to swap team to destroy base, for example, leave humans to destroy alien base from inside.

I think the game needs a mechanism to prevent that. "Easy" solution would be a kick vote, or a team-kick vote, but this would have several ways to "workaround", like, have friends or fake player to counter vote, only damage heavily buildings, or simply, just too late, since anyway buildable is destroyed.

I would suggest that, when there is no ennemy around (AIs already have a check for that kind of things), deal damage to base killer instead of dealing them to buildable.
This would also work for PvP voluntary team-kill that I've seen some (very rare) players do. The credit penalty does not really work since it's based on the idea the teamkill was an accident.
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SuperDupont
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Re: add a mechanism to prevent people change team to destroy base

Postby SuperDupont » Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:21 pm UTC

I did teamkill only when trying to kill enemy and someone jump in the line between me and the target.

So, the test "without enemy nearly" seems good.

Before, I ever hit with the blaster some construction, just to prevent bots to go far away, when building. In this case, If I received some damages, this can be acceptable too, so, again, it's a good idea. And 10 damages points is nothing for building, they quickly restore it.
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Gireen
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Re: add a mechanism to prevent people change team to destroy base

Postby Gireen » Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:31 am UTC

Griefing is hard to solve with gamplay elements.
A player could also just deconstruct all buildings.

Grieen wrote:As mentioned this problem is best solved by server admins or other players.

There are already ways to deal with this, like the denybuild command which removes building rights for a player and is also available as vote option.
Possible ways to handle griefers are:
warn->denybuild->speclock->mute->ban

https://github.com/Unvanquished/Unvanqu ... ssues/1054
fear ma engrish :granger:
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cu-kai
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Re: add a mechanism to prevent people change team to destroy base

Postby cu-kai » Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:40 am UTC

Just to add to @Gireen's response, this is an age old problem that dates back to the days of Tremulous (indeed it still occasionally occurs on Tremulous) which has always been resolved by either votekick intervention (usually too late) or server admin intervention.
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freem
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Re: add a mechanism to prevent people change team to destroy base

Postby freem » Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:03 am UTC

Gireen wrote:Griefing is hard to solve with gamplay elements.
A player could also just deconstruct all buildings.


Yes, of course, but it's less damages still: one can't unbuild last node nor main building (but could move them in obviously bad place). And unconstruct does not makes the team loose BPs.
Well, thanks for the issue though, I see it has been closed and that such kind of patches are not considered good ideas. Welp, too bad I suppose.

cu-kai wrote:(usually too late)


That's the thing: this suggestion would prevent the "too late", plus a message could be sent for mean of death "tried to destroy friendly base". This solution is still full of problems as was pointed out, but I still think it limits them, while having no drawbacks at all for honest players which accidentally destroy base when trying to defend it.
Now, Illwieckz's related "player trying to deconstruct" is true, it's possible the players don't know how to do that. I suppose that at least a mechanism could be added to automatically explain how to deconstruct when someone is trying to "force-move" the base?
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SuperDupont
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Re: add a mechanism to prevent people change team to destroy base

Postby SuperDupont » Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:38 pm UTC

Yes, some days ago, saw someone firing on building because he doesn't know how to deconstruct.
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illwieckz
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Re: add a mechanism to prevent people change team to destroy base

Postby illwieckz » Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:37 am UTC

SuperDupont wrote:Yes, some days ago, saw someone firing on building because he doesn't know how to deconstruct.


Maybe for this kind of situation we may print some message on player screen after, for example, 50% of a the health of a buildable is taken out by someone.

Also, when a buildable is teamkilled by someone, maybe display a team message saying “<buildable name> had been teamkilled by <player name>, wasting N build point and losing n% momentum”.
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SuperDupont
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Re: add a mechanism to prevent people change team to destroy base

Postby SuperDupont » Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:25 pm UTC

illwieckz wrote:
SuperDupont wrote:Yes, some days ago, saw someone firing on building because he doesn't know how to deconstruct.


Maybe for this kind of situation we may print some message on player screen after, for example, 50% of a the health of a buildable is taken out by someone.

Also, when a buildable is teamkilled by someone, maybe display a team message saying “<buildable name> had been teamkilled by <player name>, wasting N build point and losing n% momentum”.


Why not for the message in the screen, centered... but should add the player's key to properly remove the build.
And, for players arn't builder, an additional message to invite them to be a builder.

This splash screen can be a problem in game, but this players ever make a problem for the team and this can be a good way for them searching how to remove a building.

Of course, need wait some level like 50% before show the splash screen, before the hit box is so large....

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