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Wallrunning

Request new features or present your ideas.
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SantaClaws
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:25 pm UTC

Wallrunning

Postby SantaClaws » Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:45 am UTC

Hey guys, it's me again.

I see that you have gone the route of AvP wrt the wallrunning mechanic. The view shifts based on the surface you're climbing on. It's very nostalgic to those days, I'll give you that much. But god damn it's a horrible and outdated mechanic :(

It's nauseating and I have had friends quit immediately because of it. When other players use it, it looks like they're warping all over the place (which is probably a separate issue, I just wanted to point that out).

The Natural Selection 2 route, instead lets your climb on walls and the view is fixed horizontally to the ground. You don't even need a separate "climb key" in that game, it is all done very intuitively and without much effort. I really wish you guys would copy this mechanic.

https://youtu.be/duiNW-hoDzw?t=1m1s
Last edited by SantaClaws on Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:42 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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SantaClaws
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:25 pm UTC

Re: Wallrunning

Postby SantaClaws » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:40 am UTC

Can you elaborate, what exactly is copyrighted about it? How do I go about finding that sort of information?

I mean, I have played games with wallclimbing mechanics that didn't invert before, so I'm very confused with this.
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lamefun
Tyrant
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Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:29 am UTC

Re: Wallrunning

Postby lamefun » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:48 am UTC

SantaClaws wrote:what exactly is copyrighted about it


Probably nothing.

I mean, NS2 developers probably have a full-time professional gameplay designer, because it's not a free game. I also have a theory: the human mind has a nasty weakness (probably specifically engineered and planted by the Global Government to stop the development of free as in freedom software and build the Shiny New World). When a person works on an "open"-source project, that person's common sense goes away. For example, Ubuntu releasing a release where windows had 1 pixel wide resize borders (I mean, Microsoft would probably have NEVER released a Windows where you had to aim at a one-pixel border just to resize a window), GNOME 3.8 (I think) releasing without the ability to use Shift+Alt as a language selection shortcut.
Last edited by lamefun on Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:54 pm UTC, edited 10 times in total.
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GORE
Dretch
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Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:17 pm UTC

Re: Wallrunning

Postby GORE » Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:28 pm UTC

I have been wallrunning since tremulous beta and I have no problem with it, in fact i love it. It takes a lot of time to master it, maybe thats why...
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Ishq
Project Head
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Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:32 pm UTC

Re: Wallrunning

Postby Ishq » Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:58 pm UTC

Wallrunning automatically would be awkward. You can try it by enabling wallwalk toggle and then leaving it on all the time. It's super confusing.
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poVoq
Mantis
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Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:01 pm UTC

Re: Wallrunning

Postby poVoq » Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:09 pm UTC

I do agree though that keeping the "local space reference system" effected by gravity would make sense though and be much less confusing to play (and less nauseating).

Think about it this way: if it isn't a zero-G environment, why would you suddenly consider the wall to be the floor?

For walls walks one could probably tilt the view a bit to the side of the wall one hangs on (like in Mirrors Edge), and for transitions to the cieling there could be a "turn head around" kind of effect. But even if you are hanging heads down the floor is still the floor and the ceiling is still the ceiling...
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SantaClaws
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Re: Wallrunning

Postby SantaClaws » Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:02 pm UTC

GORE wrote:I have been wallrunning since tremulous beta and I have no problem with it, in fact i love it. It takes a lot of time to master it, maybe thats why...


You can have mechanics that take a lot of effort to master - WITHOUT leaving every newcomer behind.

This is coming from someone who played the old AvP games. I can adjust to this mechanic - but it is outdated, it's not interesting, it's devisive and unnecessary.

The NS2 wallrunning mechanic has a TON of depth - it takes several hundreds if not a thousand hours for most to master it. But any newcomer can do the basics with little practise.

The learning curve should be such that with little practise you can gain the absolute basics - but you get mastery level only with lots of practise. As it is now, this is just a frustrating mechanic, that will take a lot of time to get used to. Time that most players are not willing to invest. It adds no depth that you don't also have with the ns2 mechanic, at least the way I see it.
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Comet_
Mantis
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Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:52 pm UTC

Re: Wallrunning

Postby Comet_ » Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:25 pm UTC

As much as I hate it when you press "c" and walk forward and have no idea what's happening for the next 2 minutes, I feel like removing this mechanic would send the game backwards; having to remove existing features like building on walls. I do agree with you that it seems a little oudated and clunky, it just works. You are not clinging to a wall, you are walking on a wall, you are watching a human pass by lurk on the rooftop. In NS2, the interaction between skulk and human are more fair than tremulous. In 5 shots a dretch dies, so it needs that ability to lurk and be a nuisance in order to close gaps and distract or even ambush.

Just my opinion. I really feel like wall walking needs an overhaul in some way, however, because at some points it becomes a hindrance to aliens rather than an advantage.
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SantaClaws
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Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:25 pm UTC

Re: Wallrunning

Postby SantaClaws » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:29 am UTC

@Comet_ I don't want to remove wallrunning - it's a great mechanic. The shifting of the perspective however needs to go imo.

Also - in NS2 you can build on walls and ceilings without having to walk on walls - that is such a strange ass requirement to begin with..
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Ishq
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Re: Wallrunning

Postby Ishq » Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:47 pm UTC

Indeed. Most of the mechanics are remnants of Tremulous, and while for a lot of who came from Tremulous and are used to these mechanics, you're right in that a lot of these mechanics can be rethought to be easier to use.

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