Hitsounds and damage numbers

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SantaClaws
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Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:25 pm UTC

Hitsounds and damage numbers

Post by SantaClaws »

Hello this is my first post on this forum.

I just got the game and I must say I'm kind of excited. It looks like it has potential to become a great game one day.

I wanted to talk about the lack of Hitsounds and damage numbers. I made a quick search on the forum and found this post from 2013 (I didn't want to necro a 2 year old post so I made a new thread):

Viech wrote:
Forty-Two wrote:

Damage numbers and hitsounds

Both of this doesn't quite help with immersion. Hitsounds work for arcade style games that trade all their atmosphere for flow (pretty much by definition). Damage numbers are common among RPG where you wouldn't know how much damage you are doing with your current equipment (which doesn't apply to Unv) but apart from that only cartoon shooters use them, for stylistic reasons. For Unvanquished, I'd like to preserve as much of a gloomy atmosphere as possible for a competitive game. The crosshair hit indicators seemed like a good compromise to me.

Natural Selection 2 (I'm sure you guys are familiar, but in case some of you are not https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfQFykC9-v8), is a game set in the same gloomy atmosphere and successfully implemented both hitsounds and damage numbers.

NS2 is not a cartoonish style shooter like TF2 or dirty bomb and it is certainly not an RPG.

You imply that it's somehow easy to tell how much damage you've dealt in a game like this, even without damage numbers, but no NS2 competitive player in their right mind would turn that option off. Now granted, NS2 has had a history with bad hit registration, server side damage numbers were as a result; almost necessary. But it's just a qol option imo and does not take away from immersion - or so I will attempt to argue next.

My last point, I think perhaps will be the most difficult concept to sell. I'm speaking from my own experience here:

Games that try too hard to be "immersive" always seem to fail. The first game that comes to mind is Interstellar Marines - they have compromised so much on gameplay features, for the sake of immersion that the game is just no longer any joy to play and you feel more frustrated than actually immersed playing it.

The best way imo, to experience immersion - is through tough competition. When I play chess against a tough opponent - I am completely immersed. The "atmosphere" and the "graphics" are completely irrelevant - when I play chess I'm completely in that world. Everything around me ceases to exist in that moment. Competition is what truly immerses me, not pretty graphics or atmospheres.

So I'd like to appeal this decision. I think it's a great qol option. It's great for players in learning, like myself. And it's great for competitive players, like myself :)

Thanks for a pretty cool game either way :beer:

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Comet_
Mantis
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:52 pm UTC

Re: Hitsounds and damage numbers

Post by Comet_ »

SantaClaws wrote:

Hello this is my first post on this forum.

Glad to have you :cool:

SantaClaws wrote:

I wanted to talk about the lack of Hitsounds and damage numbers. I made a quick search on the forum and found this post from 2013 (I didn't want to necro a 2 year old post so I made a new thread):

Viech wrote:
Forty-Two wrote:

Damage numbers and hitsounds

Both of this doesn't quite help with immersion. Hitsounds work for arcade style games that trade all their atmosphere for flow (pretty much by definition). Damage numbers are common among RPG where you wouldn't know how much damage you are doing with your current equipment (which doesn't apply to Unv) but apart from that only cartoon shooters use them, for stylistic reasons. For Unvanquished, I'd like to preserve as much of a gloomy atmosphere as possible for a competitive game. The crosshair hit indicators seemed like a good compromise to me.

Natural Selection 2 (I'm sure you guys are familiar, but in case some of you are not https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfQFykC9-v8), is a game set in the same gloomy atmosphere and successfully implemented both hitsounds and damage numbers.

Got to agree with Viech on this one. I play TF2 very competitively and can say without a doubt that damage indicators and damage hitsounds are extremely important in that game. However, I would like to bring up some different points that may make you reconsider.

  1. TF2 has classes like demoman that may not be able to see who they hit and having sticky traps is an important part of the class. With no hitsounds demoman would truly not know who he hit - or for how much - until the person he is shooting over the cliff is dead. However, Unvanquished does not need this because the humans projectiles are all 1 dimensional and there is almost never a time that you will hurt or hit someone that you are not currently looking at. So in terms of hit confirm, Unvanquished mainly uses your eyes. Although, even then it can be hard to see how many hits do actually connect and how many don't, especially with weapons like lasgun, chaingun, and rifle. A hitmarker would help with this.

  2. Unvanquished has a beautiful and unique hitsound that is already in the game. When humans are hit by an alien - rather than hearing a high pitch ding - the humans grunt, like someone being bit by a small alien would. Same goes for aliens, they... shriek? - when humans shoot them. Instead of an annoying hitsound you are provided with a more immersive and logical one.

  3. (This is where I'm slightly on the fence) In Unvanquished, damage is told by the pitch of the aliens shriek (a great example of this is the shriek of the marauder class). The more injured the alien is, the louder and longer the shriek. This small mechanic actually stops you from imagining you are taking down a moving bullet soaker, but rather, an alien scourge with various levels of exterior armor. However, I believe for all classes there is only two shrieks, one for above half health and one for below (might be a third or a fourth don't quote me on this). This makes it kind of confusing as to whether it was a 50 health marauder shriek or a 5 health marauder shriek.

As for damage, perhaps that can be an optional effect?

SantaClaws wrote:

Games that try too hard to be "immersive" always seem to fail. The first game that comes to mind is Interstellar Marines - they have compromised so much on gameplay features, for the sake of immersion that the game is just no longer any joy to play and you feel more frustrated than actually immersed playing it.

The best way imo, to experience immersion - is through tough competition. When I play chess against a tough opponent - I am completely immersed. The "atmosphere" and the "graphics" are completely irrelevant - when I play chess I'm completely in that world. Everything around me ceases to exist in that moment. Competition is what truly immerses me, not pretty graphics or atmospheres.

Idk why you said this would be a "hard sell". This is written into the commandments of video game developing. I'm sure that once you read more on the forums and get more active around here you will see too that the devs here have taken this commandment to heart. I always hear them saying "Gameplay is King" and such, but there is never harm in adding tasteful immersion into a game that already has great gameplay... Especially if it doesn't take away from the gameplay. Often times, in fact, it will enhance your sense of gameplay.

Thanks for the great suggestions and its great to meet you. Hope to see you in future dev games mate! :beer:

Last edited by Comet_ on Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:38 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Tom
Dragoon
Posts: 253
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:34 pm UTC
Location: France

Re: Hitsounds and damage numbers

Post by Tom »

Welcome SantaClaws! :wink:

I agree with Comet, Natural Selection 2 is a very good game that I still play but damage numbers is, IMO, not one of the good thing we could borrow from it. As Comet wrote, hitsounds are already present in Unvanquished, they're the cries of humans or aliens that we have hurt.

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Ishq
Project Head
Posts: 1145
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:32 pm UTC

Re: Hitsounds and damage numbers

Post by Ishq »

Agree with comet_ + Tom. Plus Viech added visual hit indicators on your crosshair which let you know when you are dealing damage.

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