Gameplay wish list

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norfenstein
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Gameplay wish list

Postby norfenstein » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:11 pm UTC

Here's a list of things I had planned or wanted in the Tremulous mod I started and abandoned long ago. Some of these might be usable as-is in Unvanquished, but even the ones that aren't might inspire something that could be adapted. Almost all of these ideas I took from some other game (in most cases: Gloom).

  1. Collective alien regeneration - Make the alien regeneration rate based on their proximity to teammates. A solitary alien would have no (or very slow) regeneration, and increasingly fast regeneration for each nearby teammate (up to some limit, say three). The required distance should be small to make it impractical to use in combat (without getting in each other's way). Would promote teamwork and that "part of a swarm" feeling.
  2. Shared radar - Show a radar to all humans near a teammate equipped with a radar. I talked about this a long time ago here. It's basically another opportunity to promote teamwork. Would be best if equipping a radar prevented you from equipping other things, like heavy armor, so that you'd want protection from teammates anyway.
  3. Spiker - An alien structure that instantly fires a blast of projectiles at the first human to enter its (omnidirectional) range. High damage, moderate/slow reload. Fun for aliens because placement would matter a lot more than it does for acid tubes and hives. Fun for humans because they'd actually be dodgeable with skill.
  4. Gasser - An alien structure that periodically spouts a cloud of gas (or acid or whatever) when an enemy is near. The clouds would be affected by gravity, so building them high would make them cover more area. Could fill the same niche that acid tubes do, but would be more interesting for aliens because placement would matter more, and more interesting for humans because the damage isn't constant, so it'd be possible to evade them. Gloom's gasser also obscured human vision.
  5. Invisibility cloak - An ability for aliens to go invisible when not moving and not taking damage. This and the next two ideas I imagined going together on one class (equivalent to Gloom's powerful and stealthy Guardian, but with wallwalking). Cloaked aliens would still show up on radar. Maybe let nearby teammates use the cloak too for some teamwork possibilities (and because it's annoying when teammates ruin your stealth).
  6. Infestation - Alien ability to infest human corpses, turning them into free defensive structures. I could see removing hives but reusing the tracking swarms for infested bodies...
  7. Proximity trap grenades - A supplemental weapon for stealthy aliens. Short range gravity-affected projectiles that would stick to walls and remain in place until a human got near, then explode, slowing and disorienting the human (to make it easier to kill). Should be hard to spot, but destroyed easily with weapons.
  8. Human stealth - Ability for a human to be invisible to alien radar, maybe also with silenced movement and weapon sounds. Should extend to nearby teammates so the stealthy guy doesn't have reason to hate everyone else.
  9. Air cannon - A human weapon that shoots a short-range projectile that does no damage but high knockback, with splash. So you could use it for pushing back aliens, launching teammates (politely!) where they want to be, or "rocket-jumping" without hurting yourself. I actually envisioned this as the secondary firing mode of a shotgun-like weapon for a support class that could use it to help builders get into high places without a jetpack (inspired by the scattergun of Gloom's biotech).
  10. Air jump - A movement ability to jump once in the air. If you're not holding any directional buttons it would send you straight up, otherwise it would be an impulse in the direction you're indicating. I imagine it on a marauder-like class.
  11. Dash - Basically Tremulous's dodge, but not limited to three directions (so a little more like Warsow's dash), and not available to everyone. I imagined it on a human class equipped with a shotgun and painsaw.
  12. Shock grenade - A defensive human grenade that disorients aliens (by instantly randomizing their view). Would have a very short fuse time, so that unless you threw it straight at the ground it probably explode in the air.
  13. Translocator - A movement item for humans. Launch a medium-range gravity-affected projectile then teleport to its location.
  14. Healing pack - A human item to grant health regeneration to the wearer and all nearby teammates.
  15. Pistol - A simple clip-based handgun for humans. Could suitably replace the blaster.

Honorable already-mentioneds:
  • Flying alien with air lift - In the game I envisioned, builders were far less mobile naturally (no wallwalking, no jetpack) and so to get to high places they had to either stack structures or rely on teammates for help (aliens with a flying class, humans with an air cannon to launch their builder).
  • Kamikaze - A small, fast, defensively weak alien capable of doing massive explosive damage.
  • Projectile turret (section 5.2.1.1)
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Viech
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Re: Gameplay wish list

Postby Viech » Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:09 am UTC

A lot of good ideas in there! Here's what I think.

  1. Collective alien regeneration
    Sounds good, I think I'll try something like that in the course of the lisk redesign where it's supposed to lose its supporter role. I was playing with the though of doing a similiar thing for alien buildables and their maximum health. Instead of having them require creep, a single buildable would just have a lower maximum health while three or more would have full health.
  2. Shared radar
    Already on my list. My current plans for the radar are leaving it a seperate item and make it a backpack (so it would indeed exclude the battlesuit) but have it provide radar data to nearby teammates (or spotted enemies to every teammate). Before that I want a better minimap though.
  3. Spiker & Gasser
    Acid tubes are indeed a bit boring. I'll keep both ideas in mind.
  4. Invisibility cloak & Human stealth
    I'm not sure how well invisibility would work with client side prediction, e.g. collision. I also don't want sneak attacks on bases to become easier, I think a team that controls all corridors outside their base should be equally aware of base attacks as campers. However, I'm not totally opposed to invisibility either and I might experiment with it as a perk sometime in the future.
  5. Infestation
    I like that very much. Balancing will be a bit tricky here since it's hard to predict how many corpses will be available for a different number of players. Not sure if this should be bought by grangers for build points and be permanent or inserted by a combat class for free and only last a while. Either way I'm a bit afraid of giving aliens a form of base defense that grows over the course of attacks.
  6. Proximity trap grenades
    Why not, sounds like a nice perk for the new lisk. I imaged it to throw bombs of some sort anyway. I wanted one perk that is good for attacking bases (some sort of EMP that disables the buildable it hits for a short while and also draws power from the environment and potentially shuts down more buildables) and what you describe could be the anti-human counterpart.
  7. Air cannon
    Very high knockback could get ugly with high pings. Apart from that, support weapons like this could be a lot of fun when used by squads.
  8. Air jump
    I guess marauder (I'd like to keep it) and flying alien won't leave a big niche for this.
  9. Dash
    I think human movement is pretty powerful allready. Actually I'd like to have an easy to use dodge ability for the non-quaker newbes to have a small chance in close combat but I don't want to see it in the hands of experienced players.
  10. Shock grenade
    With the firebomb we already started establishing a grenade slot. Heal grenades, shock grenades, I'm open to anything that fills a niche. How would you evision the shock grenade to be used? Defending bases, attacking them or skirmishes? I'd like to have a cheap weapon that gives you an advantage in the latter. Attacking bases is kind of satisfied with two anti-structure grenades and active defense shouldn't be encouraged in my opinion.
  11. Translocator
    Sounds very similiar to the new jetpack in what it can achieve. When would one chose the jetpack and when the translocator? I guess we need a solid reason to want such an item, since the technicalities aren't quite simple. (What happens if you hit a player or buildable? How is the new position determined when the bounding box doesn't fit at the exact spot it hits and how do we prevent glitches such as getting trapped or leaving the map?)
  12. Healing pack
    I'm in favor of either a mobile healing station (backpacked and deployed on a wall) or a heal grenade. Passive healing isn't so much fun.
  13. Pistol
    Has been on kharnov's wish list for ages. I guess we'll assign it once all the other human weapons are modeled or atleast in progress.
  14. Flying alien with air lift
    I liked this idea a lot when you first mentioned it. However, I guess this is nearly impossible to get to work with client side prediciton since there is no way you can predict the next direction change of the person carrying you. Depending on how smooth the air movement of the flying alien is, there might exist math to do this but the result may or may not be satisfying.
  15. Kamikaze
    Requested a lot, will probably be available as a perk for the dretch.
  16. Projectile turret
    Work in progress.
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norfenstein
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Re: Gameplay wish list

Postby norfenstein » Thu Nov 28, 2013 2:08 am UTC

Infestation
Balancing will be a bit tricky here since it's hard to predict how many corpses will be available for a different number of players. Not sure if this should be bought by grangers for build points and be permanent or inserted by a combat class for free and only last a while. Either way I'm a bit afraid of giving aliens a form of base defense that grows over the course of attacks.

For what it's worth, this was never a problem in Gloom (but then in that game structures came and went a lot easier with all the explosive attacks... and three out of the seven non-builder human classes were immune to infestations...).

Air jump
I guess marauder (I'd like to keep it) and flying alien won't leave a big niche for this.

Maybe Unvanquished will never be fast-paced enough for something like this, but it doesn't necessarily have to be usable for gaining speed (though it'd really fun for that). If at some point you wanted the marauder to be even harder to hit it could be just an extra evasive maneuver marauders could use to switch directions in the air.

Shock grenade
How would you evision the shock grenade to be used?

It's strictly defensive. You could use it to escape a bad encounter, or disorient someone in a skirmish, but it'd be especially devastating against an alien surrounded by turrets.

Translocator
Sounds very similiar to the new jetpack in what it can achieve.

You're probably right. In the game I designed most of the classes had their own unique, fun movement ability, but it'd probably make less sense in a class-less system where anyone could just take a jetpack.

Healing pack
I'm in favor of either a mobile healing station (backpacked and deployed on a wall) or a heal grenade. Passive healing isn't so much fun.

I kind of hate active healing because it requires your teammates to not be pants-on-the-ground stupid. If you just have to stand next to a guy for him to heal you then he can shove berries up his nose all game and still be useful.

Pistol
I guess we'll assign it once all the other human weapons are modeled or atleast in progress.

Palette swap the blaster. Graphics are overrated. :)

Flying alien with air lift
However, I guess this is nearly impossible to get to work with client side prediciton since there is no way you can predict the next direction change of the person carrying you.

At worst, if the flight mechanics allowed for sustained vertical lifting it could allow for teammates to ride it straight up by just sitting on its head and jumping repeatedly. That's how Gloom's wraith lifted teammates (though Quake 2 physics were more forgiving of player stacking; even this might require adjustment in Unvanquished's engine).
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kharnov
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Re: Gameplay wish list

Postby kharnov » Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:28 am UTC

New grenades or small things like a pistol would actually be pretty good assignments to new modelers, so I don't know if it's that much of an issue.
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Re: Gameplay wish list

Postby janev » Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:26 am UTC

I am all for having new interesting weapons and teamwork combinations. That aircannon could be interesting. The same goes for any movement limiting grenades and such. Balancing them will be issue but since we have time now is the time to experiment.

  • Collective alien regeneration - Some sort of swarm bonus would be good for aliens. It could apply to damage values, physical resistances, healing values, or give a hitpoint boost.
  • Shared radar - Sure
  • Spiker - Sure... It is worth testing. Maybe we could just clone the trapper and change the damage values? You could even add damage to the trapper if you want them to be one and the same.
  • Gasser - Dunno. Doesn't seem like a high priority upgrade since it is very similar to the acid tube and the acid tube model is pretty nice.
  • Invisibility cloak - Would invisible aliens actually become visible when a human with radar is nearby or would they just show up on radar? It could be annoying when hunting that last alien if they still stay invisible.
  • Infestation - Interesting. A class that creates hives for each of its kills. Maybe even something for the granger so you don't end up with a bunch of hives everywhere as you would if it was an offensive class. That or make it a part of the perk system.
  • Proximity trap grenades - Goes under the heading mines.... mines work best when camping and might make things less fun. If the stealth class can only place one at a time and it expires automatically after a certain amount of time I'm fine with it. Actually you could give it a build timer and make it so you can place one every x seconds and so it disappears after x - 5 seconds. If you set x to 10 seconds it would be useful in combat for making a quick getaway or getting the upper hand on an opponent but would expire quickly enough that it is not a problem for camping.
  • Human stealth - This will give human rushers a huge boost.
  • Air cannon - Having a secondary mode for this is fine. Having it as primary would gimp the weapon too much. The other thing is recoil.... Anything powerful enough to push back a rant would mess up the human holding it too. Unless you have some equal backwards thrust going on it wouldn't be very realistic. It might be interesting as a defensive structure mechanic.... Something with a lot of knockback. Air cannon, water cannon, or just a tesla with added knockback.
  • Air jump - Allowing the marauder/shrike to do a barrel roll or air dodge you say... That could be interesting.
  • Dash - I never liked dodge. When you give humans crazy movement abilities it messes with balance and the whole melee vs ranged dynamic.
  • Shock grenade - Shock grenades, flash bangs, freeze grenades etc. They seem cool at first glance but again they mess with how easy it is for aliens to get close. This makes balancing difficult.
  • Translocator - Telefragging like in unreal tournament you say? It could be interesting. Who gets the teleporter? Is it something for the builder? Do you buy it separately? Telefragging tyrants would lead to interesting balance issues and bugs.
  • Healing pack - It reduced the human reliance on their base. I dunno if that is good or bad. The idea with the confidence system was to force both teams to build up the whole map, this idea takes things in the other direction. If you already have builders making forward bases everywhere why do you need an additional healer unit? Would the healing power of the pack be limited in some way? Like you only have enough juice to fully heal 5 humans or something. If there are no limits it will mean a good human team doesn't have to go back to base to resupply for a very long time.
  • Pistol - The only difference is the finite amount of ammo and the need to reload. Are these desirable traits? From an aesthetic point of view it would probably tie in better with the other weapons. I was actually thinking that you could make the pistol/blaster/whatever the gun everyone spawns with. That way you actually need an armory to get your free rifle/smg and it also means people are more motivated to spawn builders from the get go
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Re: Gameplay wish list

Postby Anomalous » Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:23 pm UTC

kharnov wrote:New grenades or small things like a pistol would actually be pretty good assignments to new modelers, so I don't know if it's that much of an issue.

Norfenstein has a point with his palette-swap comment – it may be that simple for these items (and is, for the existing grenade types).
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Re: Gameplay wish list

Postby Viech » Thu Dec 26, 2013 3:19 am UTC

Apart from the projectile turret aka Rocket Pod being modeled by hristew, the Spiker concept is being worked on by alex_bo and his Pistol concet is waiting for a modeler now.

Gameplay wise, there's not much to say about the pistol (semi-automatic, 5-10 damage, 8-15 shots per magazine). For the Spiker I plan to stick to your feature outline (omnidirectional, high damage, very slow fire rate, pretty much a recharging proximity mine) but I'd also like to play around with additional attributes: It would go off when damaged and do (potentially reduced) team damage. This way, placement would matter a lot: Attackers can hit exposed Spikers to both disarm them and do a small amount of area damage against the alien base and multiple Spikers could even be setting off each other. I will attempt to use a number of gravity affected spike projectiles that deal damage based on distance but have no range limit, so a chain reaction could even be of use to the aliens given that multiple Spikers would fire with a chance to hit a target that only triggered a single one directly. A small delay before firing might be used to give humans a chance to dodge and make chain reactions less network intense.
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norfenstein
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Re: Gameplay wish list

Postby norfenstein » Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:34 pm UTC

janev wrote:Invisibility cloak - Would invisible aliens actually become visible when a human with radar is nearby or would they just show up on radar? It could be annoying when hunting that last alien if they still stay invisible.

They would only show up on radar, but the person with the radar could just shoot them to make them visible. And shared radar would alert nearby teammates anyway.

janev wrote:Translocator - Telefragging like in unreal tournament you say? It could be interesting. Who gets the teleporter? Is it something for the builder? Do you buy it separately? Telefragging tyrants would lead to interesting balance issues and bugs.

My feeling is that builders shouldn't get any decent weapons or movement powers (besides perhaps movement-enabling buildings, I think they should have to rely on teammates for everything). I imagined this on a human class with stealth capabilities (and something like the mass driver as its main weapons). And a guaranteed instant-kill might be lame; for a target with a lot of health, the telefrag should probably just fail and deal a big amount of damage (and maybe deal damage back to the human too, just for fun).

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