Alpha 16 and new human building scheme

[JOURNEYMAN]

Generally, I don't have problems with the new human building scheme, except that I find it weird that I can't build anymore structures in the base even when there are plenty of BP left. I have to build repeaters in order to build more structures, even right next to the RC. If this was a forward base then I can see the power being lower than the main base and the need for more repeaters. However, in the presence of the RC, shouldn't there be more than enough power for any number of structures?

Also, the mini map was pretty nice when maps have it. Can the size of the mini map be reduced by 20 ~ 25%?

[Viech]

Power is subject to balancing. Here are the current settings:

Code: Select all

#define BASE_POWER                    20  // amount of power available everywhere (if RC is up)
#define POWER_COMPETITION_RANGE       320 // buildables in this range will compete for power
#define REACTOR_POWER                 40  // extra power the reactor yields in its range
#define REACTOR_POWER_RANGE           800
#define REPEATER_POWER                20  // extra power a repeater yields in its range
#define REPEATER_POWER_RANGE          400
#define LEVEL1_INTERFERENCE           13  // basilisk "power consumption"
#define LEVEL1_INTERFERENCE_RANGE     250
#define LEVEL1UPG_INTERFERENCE        16  // advanced basilisk "power consumption"
#define LEVEL1UPG_INTERFERENCE_RANGE  300
#define POWER_RELEVANT_RANGE          800 // max of all above ranges

The buildable power consumption is set inside their config files. It's currently 21 for the drill (so that it requires a close power source), 15 for the tesla and 10 for everything else.

Anything that has a range will have its value deplete linearly, so the RC would yield 20 extra power at its half-range of 400. The bar below buildables shows the spare power at the position of the buildable, where a full bar means BASE_POWER = 20 power.

How would you adjust these values? Do you have pictures of "sane" (non UBP) base layouts that worked before but require a repeater now? Is there a standard GPP base layout that doesn't work anymore?

Our goal is to allow both teams to build robust bases that can stand an attack of one or two individuals if left undefended. If anything we want to prevent turtling, where all resources mined over the course of the game are spent on main base defense as opposed to dropping the ckit for a gun or building forwards. So this is one of the two reasons to have a limit even in RC range (the other is to prevent hard cuts between the base area and the rest of the map).

[JOURNEYMAN]

Well it was not a criticism of new build system, just that I found it to be somewhat weird.
Here are the images of an atcs base. (not so good one and unfinished)

There is a drill behind the RC and I'm trying to build a second drill close to that corner but can't due to lack of power. However, if I move a little further out, it can be built. Also notice that three buildings are marked for deconstruction.

And I forgot to ask in the previous post; why does deconstructing a structure result in the loss of confidence?

[Viech]

Deconstructing and replacing leads to a confidence loss because otherwise you could repeatedly deconstruct a structure and use the returned BP to build it again which would generate an unlimited amount of confidence without really helping the match to progress.

For pre-placed buildables, the confidence removed is equal to the amount you would gain when you rebuilt it in the same place. For player-placed buildables, the amount removed is equal to the amount gained.

Regarding the drill, I don't really want it to draw that much power but I don't want it to be placable outside of the main base or an existing forward either. Alternatively I could add the artificial limit that Drills must be build in the range of RC or Rep and reduce its cost from 21 to 10. Both approaches have their issues, I'm not sure which one is better. Giving the Drill a higher power consumption makes both the code and the explaination coherent, adding the artificial limit could improve the situation you are describing. Since the power system is already more complex than Tremulous' approach I went with coherency.

[JOURNEYMAN]

Thanks for the explanation regarding the confidence loss when deconstructing a structure. It makes sense.

For the drills and power requirement, placing them too close to each other already affects negatively in terms of time used. The drill builds much slower than the turrets. Provided that you already have enough BP, you could build something else in the time to build a drill that will help support the base better. I try to maximize the resource generation rate as much as possible. I don't remember building more than three or four drills in the main base regardless of the size of the base. If the resource generated from the extra drill is less than ₆₀%, I try to move out of the main base or forward base and build elsewhere, preferably advancing closer to the aliens. Also, practically you can only build one drill per forward base. Regardless of which system you are choosing, it shouldn't affect how the base can be configured at the end.

[Viech]

What I fear is that humans could spam drills all over the map. The drill is (and should be) so cheap that even if it gets destroyed quickly it will be worth the placement (in the first 15 minutes of a match, a drill will return its cost in less than a minute). If not placed next to another structure, the drill will also yield 80% of its confidence value, which leads to an alien advantage of just 3 confidence points when the "forward" gets destroyed. A drill takes 20s to build.

Now let's compare this to aliens who are still (and I think should continue to be) bound to creep. Building a leech will require an egg first, so the total cost of the forward is 14 build points. The leech will need ca. 2-3 minutes during the first 15 minutes of the game to return those resources. Building the egg will yield the initial 80% of its confidence value but building the leech close will only give you 0.8 * 0.9¹ = 72% of its value, so that the total quota is slightly below 77%. Since there are also more buildables affected, the humans will have a confidence advantage of 8.2 points when the forward gets killed. Egg and leech together will take 35s to build.

So while the aliens motivation to defend the mining forward should be higher by a factor of 2-3, dumb spamming of drills could be worthwhile if you consider the chance that one of them isn't found and destroyed quickly by the enemy, which isn't so unlikely on bigger maps.

[Viech]

One nice explaination would be that »drills need a close power source to distribute the mined resources via the power grid«. This would require the resource to be something that can be dematerialized and sent over the air just like power. Which makes some sense to me when I look at how human buildables cosntruct. kharnov, as the story writer, would you be OK with such an explaination?

[kharnov]

Of course. Oil doesn't ship itself, neither should resources.

[Viech]

So I'll try it that way. Expect drills to have a reduced power consumption in the next dev games JOURNEYMAN. (Thanks for the feedback!)

[JOURNEYMAN]

No problem.

I may have discovered what could be a bug.
As you can see in the first picture, I can't build the drill because there is no power there. However, when I build a repeater there, as you can see in the second picture, a drill can be built while the repeater is being built. A second builder can theoretically build a drill while the repeater is in the process of building.

I moved further out to see if it can be repeated again, and as you can see in the third and fourth picture, it does.