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Aliens of Unvanquished

Talk about anything related to Unvanquished.
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ViruS
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Re: Aliens of Unvanquished

Postby ViruS » Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:31 am UTC

dretch: Insect? Looks very much like a spider - Its eye positions, the abdomen, the leg spurts out from the whateveryoucallit...
Basi: Reptilian? Nah. "Supposed to be a mini rant?" Never heard that story.
Seriously, look at Tremulous. Back then, you had what, this sequence?

Brown spider -> white reptilian thing missing a lower jaw -> red reptilian thing with both jaws -> dark blue bulky thing that now bites instead of slashes -> huge blue bulky thing that has an entirely different body shape and goes back to slashing

->Green weird meaty fleshy "unknown" "somewhat spider-like" (big front legs, big abdomen)
->Light brown/yellow 6-legged "semispider" that shed its ability to build along with its tusks, (most of its features aren't even like a spider, i.e. the 4 arms under, not in front of its head, and its hunched back, no visable mouth)
-> pink "lengthier reptilian" with longer legs and the teeth growing on the botoom of its head, armour growing on the back around its hunch, the wreird chest pattern starts here and is kept
-> more redder and bigger one with armour on its claws, grows side frills that emit electricity, and its lower jaw is complete, grows slightly fatter
-> Bigger, stronger with a "forehead" plate and tusks regrow from the frills, front legs become strong for pouncing, lose leg armour for lighter build, loses hunch armour
-> Front portion stands up, *magically* from the tusks (yeah, okay, there's a fault here), hunch is what causes them to raise up, headplate becomes head balance support

Unv:
Moar armour!
"Whoops, posture changed! (head seperated upwards instead of forwards)"
Moar armour!
"Whoops, posture changed again! (neck shortens into a turtle-like, not refering to the long neck turtle btw)"
Moar armour!
Moar armour! (*argh soo heavy... that i can pounce at blazingly fast speeds, yet cannot crush bones of a human and kill in one go)
Moar limbs! (more than trem even has!)

How I saw it when i first saw unv:
Spider -> ???
??? -> ???
??? -> Moar armour!
Moar armour! -> Moar limbs, lose that armour, brain exposed, who gives a fak if its a weak point, grow more limbs

@mara in more detail: I understand your points, but I'm not sure how does a thick "chunk" of armour emit electricity. Rather, the tremulous model's looks like it was vunerable to bullets as well though.
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Khaoz
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Re: Aliens of Unvanquished

Postby Khaoz » Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:42 pm UTC

ViruS wrote:dretch: Insect? Looks very much like a spider - Its eye positions, the abdomen, the leg spurts out from the whateveryoucallit...
Basi: Reptilian? Nah. "Supposed to be a mini rant?" Never heard that story.

->Green weird meaty fleshy "unknown" "somewhat spider-like" (big front legs, big abdomen)
->Light brown/yellow 6-legged "semispider" that shed its ability to build along with its tusks, (most of its features aren't even like a spider, i.e. the 4 arms under, not in front of its head, and its hunched back, no visable mouth)
-> pink "lengthier reptilian" with longer legs and the teeth growing on the botoom of its head, armour growing on the back around its hunch, the wreird chest pattern starts here and is kept
-> more redder and bigger one with armour on its claws, grows side frills that emit electricity, and its lower jaw is complete, grows slightly fatter
-> Bigger, stronger with a "forehead" plate and tusks regrow from the frills, front legs become strong for pouncing, lose leg armour for lighter build, loses hunch armour
-> Front portion stands up, *magically* from the tusks (yeah, okay, there's a fault here), hunch is what causes them to raise up, headplate becomes head balance support

Unv:
Moar armour!
"Whoops, posture changed! (head seperated upwards instead of forwards)"
Moar armour!
"Whoops, posture changed again! (neck shortens into a turtle-like, not refering to the long neck turtle btw)"
Moar armour!
Moar armour! (*argh soo heavy... that i can pounce at blazingly fast speeds, yet cannot crush bones of a human and kill in one go)
Moar limbs! (more than trem even has!)

How I saw it when i first saw unv:
Spider -> ???
??? -> ???
??? -> Moar armour!
Moar armour! -> Moar limbs, lose that armour, brain exposed, who gives a fak if its a weak point, grow more limbs

@mara in more detail: I understand your points, but I'm not sure how does a thick "chunk" of armour emit electricity. Rather, the tremulous model's looks like it was vunerable to bullets as well though.


I understood exactly none of this post.
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Re: Aliens of Unvanquished

Postby Unregistered » Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:12 pm UTC

" wrote:
kharnov wrote:Some people say one thing looks fantastic, other people say the same thing looks terrible. Can't please everyone. :p

However, what we can assure you of is that all of the aliens will be of the highest possible quality. Even if you disapprove of some feature of their body plan, they will still look great on their own.



I completely agree with the matter of opinion. But so far more people have expressed against it, then people have liked it.

but now looking at facts..... The dragoon, which is next in line, has a very long snout, and the Basi before the Mara has one also.... And the Rant, and the Granger........ and non of them have a jaw like that.......... or eyes like that..........

Leading to my personal opinion, that it doesn't fit..... and i don't like it. Although I do enjoy the body and the claw feet. Im guessing the feet give it the ability to wall jump like it does, making a nice segway from wall crawling, to the pounce of the Goon, and finally to the nothing of a Rant....


Unregistered wrote:How about the Marauder spew a stream of green corrosive acid (i.e. acid tube) at a shorter distance than Dragoon barb (and opposed to electric shock) that splatters on a surface, and Dragoon shoot an acid ball which impacts and explodes. Similar effects to poison on humans.


That does seem more "realistic", But IMO the electricity is waaaayyyyy cooler and it arcs from human to human ;)

hehe That electricity is hard to put down.
How about an alien which can build a barrier around itself as a defensive position? Or maybe Human Builder could erect walls/barriers (destructive) as well or similar to the Granger. Might add an interesting additional element to gameplay for base defence, map creativity, and forward bases. Am just quietly brainstorming here, don't mind me... lol
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seana11
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Re: Aliens of Unvanquished

Postby seana11 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:05 pm UTC

Khaoz wrote:I understood exactly none of this post.


It made perfect sense: he is poking fun at progression that kharnov likes.
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Re: Aliens of Unvanquished

Postby WhiteTech » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:55 am UTC

ViruS wrote:dretch: Insect? Looks very much like a spider - Its eye positions, the abdomen, the leg spurts out from the whateveryoucallit...
Basi: Reptilian? Nah. "Supposed to be a mini rant?" Never heard that story.

->Green weird meaty fleshy "unknown" "somewhat spider-like" (big front legs, big abdomen)
->Light brown/yellow 6-legged "semispider" that shed its ability to build along with its tusks, (most of its features aren't even like a spider, i.e. the 4 arms under, not in front of its head, and its hunched back, no visable mouth)
-> pink "lengthier reptilian" with longer legs and the teeth growing on the botoom of its head, armour growing on the back around its hunch, the wreird chest pattern starts here and is kept
-> more redder and bigger one with armour on its claws, grows side frills that emit electricity, and its lower jaw is complete, grows slightly fatter
-> Bigger, stronger with a "forehead" plate and tusks regrow from the frills, front legs become strong for pouncing, lose leg armour for lighter build, loses hunch armour
-> Front portion stands up, *magically* from the tusks (yeah, okay, there's a fault here), hunch is what causes them to raise up, headplate becomes head balance support

Unv:
Moar armour!
"Whoops, posture changed! (head seperated upwards instead of forwards)"
Moar armour!
"Whoops, posture changed again! (neck shortens into a turtle-like, not refering to the long neck turtle btw)"
Moar armour!
Moar armour! (*argh soo heavy... that i can pounce at blazingly fast speeds, yet cannot crush bones of a human and kill in one go)
Moar limbs! (more than trem even has!)

How I saw it when i first saw unv:
Spider -> ???
??? -> ???
??? -> Moar armour!
Moar armour! -> Moar limbs, lose that armour, brain exposed, who gives a fak if its a weak point, grow more limbs

@mara in more detail: I understand your points, but I'm not sure how does a thick "chunk" of armour emit electricity. Rather, the tremulous model's looks like it was vunerable to bullets as well though.





Im really not understanding your views.... They all have 6 limbs. They've always had 6 limbs.

The original basi was a off reptile with no bottom jaw, old Unva Basi was supposed to be a mini rant, and if fact does, look at them side by side. Now the new one is amazing in all possible ways.

Wtf about posture?

And armor plates to give it more reason to be able to take multiple clips of ammo before it dies.


As for Insect, general slag term for small creepy crawlies. IE: Flys, ants, arachnides ect.... no need to be anal.
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Re: Aliens of Unvanquished

Postby ViruS » Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:32 am UTC

They all have 6 limbs. They've always had 6 limbs.
Look at the tyrant
Basi: I was never told this.
Wtf about posture?

*spider gains an L shaped back, sticking the head upwards*
*next class has the backbone streched forward
*the class after that class after that has its back stretched up again

Having the two evolution classes in between with a different posture is kinda pointless, or you could say the basi having its head up is pointless. We might as well get the head of the mara and the goon up.

And armor plates to give it more reason to be able to take multiple clips of ammo before it dies.

Tyrant seems to be having a lot of weak spots then, particularly the back of its head where its brain should be a one-shot easy weakpoint, unless it's tougher than steel.
Adding simply armour and making the class bigger doesn't make it interesting for me. It's like adding chunks of metal to a tank to make it look cooler.
What I like about the some trem models-
basi - unique jaw
mara - unique 'zapping' storage in its bodies, showing off (despite looking like a weakpoint)

As for Insect, general slag term for small creepy crawlies. IE: Flys, ants, arachnides ect.... no need to be anal.

In a way that's like calling dogs horses, or the other away around.
The closest I can ever relate to that is probably dingoes, an australian dog-wolf hybrid.
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Re: Aliens of Unvanquished

Postby kharnov » Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:46 pm UTC

Why are we assuming all the aliens evolved from each other, though? The background material I wrote a while ago involves the aliens being different organisms initially, and they were all inducted into the swarm. This is partially why I don't like the term "evolution points" anymore. People think that all the aliens are supposed to "evolve" into each other. It has become entrenched, and everyone thinks that way now. It's somewhat irritating, especially considering that I'm the one writing the new background material and I have to work from practically nothing more than a collection of models.

Regardless, there's a whole minefield of misconceptions. I can only scratch the surface, but as an evolutionary biologist (though I must admit I work with plants, not animals) I can tell you that not only does evolution not work the way that people seem to think it does (I blame Pokemon for this), but the organisms we're dealing with don't necessarily have to follow the same evolutionary mechanisms that occur in life on Earth. They're aliens, why do you want them to use the same biology that we do? Do you know how hilariously improbable that would be?

In summary, let me make something clear. Our priorities are this: looking cool goes first, forming a logical explanation for everything else goes second. Without a doubt, I can write story material to explain anything. We would rather have models that we feel look cool instead of limiting ourselves to having everything look the same for whatever reason.
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Re: Aliens of Unvanquished

Postby KenuR » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:52 am UTC

kharnov wrote:Why are we assuming all the aliens evolved from each other, though? The background material I wrote a while ago involves the aliens being different organisms initially, and they were all inducted into the swarm. This is partially why I don't like the term "evolution points" anymore. People think that all the aliens are supposed to "evolve" into each other. It has become entrenched, and everyone thinks that way now. It's somewhat irritating, especially considering that I'm the one writing the new background material and I have to work from practically nothing more than a collection of models.

Regardless, there's a whole minefield of misconceptions. I can only scratch the surface, but as an evolutionary biologist (though I must admit I work with plants, not animals) I can tell you that not only does evolution not work the way that people seem to think it does (I blame Pokemon for this), but the organisms we're dealing with don't necessarily have to follow the same evolutionary mechanisms that occur in life on Earth. They're aliens, why do you want them to use the same biology that we do? Do you know how hilariously improbable that would be?

In summary, let me make something clear. Our priorities are this: looking cool goes first, forming a logical explanation for everything else goes second. Without a doubt, I can write story material to explain anything. We would rather have models that we feel look cool instead of limiting ourselves to having everything look the same for whatever reason.


Well, I did suggest a while ago that each alien class should be balanced out so that they're all equally useful in different situations. So, atm, rant is the strongest and overall the best choice in most situations. If you reduce the aliens' HP across the board and make them more or less equal in strength, make each class available for free at the start (you still have to unlock some classes, but it doesn't cost evo points to play as them) and give each class several advanced forms to evolve into by spending evos, then the game would be a lot more balanced and would actually make some sense.
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Re: Aliens of Unvanquished

Postby ViruS » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:05 am UTC

Ahh whatever. We might as well give them the ability to ride hoverboards.
I don't like the term "evolution points" anymore.

What should we use.... hmm... Newform points! Reform points!.... uhh... Mutation points! sounds gay... give up...
forming a logical explanation for everything else goes second

I'm still having trouble finding any links apart from armour between aliens


KenuR wrote:So, atm, rant is the strongest and overall the best choice in most situations.

WARNING: Goes Off-Topic:
Gameplay-wise, Rant is the most unused class for me, not because it costs 5 evos or because it's only available at s3, but because it's the most useless class. I have my own reasons:
-It's harder to dodge turrets due to the wide bbox area
-Can't jump ontop of anything higher than a tube (cades don't count) despite being able to "jump the gap" in atcs/plat23
-So fat, just a big target
-Hard to use in teamwork except for being a meatshield for fleeing goons
-Easy to block teammates with
-Feels slow, unless in a small area that suits the class (i.e. atcs hallways, plat23 halls are too long and spacious)
-Heals so slow that I'd rather killmyself after I reach below 50 hp and if I have evos

And dragoon is actually quite unbalanced for several reasons:
-One of the tankiest class
-One of the fastest class
-One of the strongest class

In most games, they generally follow these trends:
-Smallest = Fastest, not really hard to hit
-Bigger = Does more damage, tanky yet slow
...
...
*rest deleted, extended over 1000 words accidentally, fak dat and fak meh, I think i've got /d/hc disease
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Re: Aliens of Unvanquished

Postby WhiteTech » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:04 pm UTC

ViruS wrote:Look at the tyrant
Basi: I was never told this.

*spider gains an L shaped back, sticking the head upwards*
*next class has the backbone streched forward
*the class after that class after that has its back stretched up again

Having the two evolution classes in between with a different posture is kinda pointless, or you could say the basi having its head up is pointless. We might as well get the head of the mara and the goon up.


Tyrant seems to be having a lot of weak spots then, particularly the back of its head where its brain should be a one-shot easy weakpoint, unless it's tougher than steel.
Adding simply armour and making the class bigger doesn't make it interesting for me. It's like adding chunks of metal to a tank to make it look cooler.
What I like about the some trem models-
basi - unique jaw
mara - unique 'zapping' storage in its bodies, showing off (despite looking like a weakpoint)


In a way that's like calling dogs horses, or the other away around.
The closest I can ever relate to that is probably dingoes, an australian dog-wolf hybrid.


Virus:

The Tyrant has 2 arms and 4 legs. 2 + 4 = 6. So, to put it in evolutionary standards, 2 of the legs evolved into slashing arms.

Basi, Either was I until a few months ago, and it makes sense that it actually looks like a mini rant, but who cares because it's being changed entirely.

And what about adding armor? It's not just adding armor for the Adv class, the base class is getting it to, and eh Adv. class still needs to look something like it's base class. An Adv. Mara is still a Mara, just a bit bigger, tougher and glows with blue electricity since it can zap things.

Posture: Im very sure us humans can stand up straight leaving most monkeys still hunched over, walking on their knuckles.


kharnov: I agree looking cool is defiantly of the up most importance. But the difficulty with that is everything needs to be of the same art style, and a certain level of being believable. Just like movies. You can't tell me Avatar would be as good if it wasn't as believable? James Cameron himself said that.

But what you're suggesting about real life evolution doesn't apply in this particular instance. The only logical solution to any evolution is evolving something that is needed. Flowers attract bees. In this case Maras become bigger more powerful Goons and become bigger more powerful tyrants. One alien evolving into the next as needed.

As for aliens being different organisms entirely doesn't make sense in the least. They all come from the same egg and the same base alien. And is not a simple symbiotic relationship like most cross species relationships. Think of it as ants. There is the Queen ant, worker ants, and soldier ants. Same organism slightly different, all come from the same egg, and all work together to achieve a common goal. In this case, destroy all humans. So to be at least somewhat believable and possible in anyway they all need to evolve into "each other". So I guess I just counter argued myself, because this actually does model real evolution. But I guess if we go by the ant example we'd have to change "Evolving" into "Changing" into the different aliens.

So our "assumption" is in fact the only solution that we are forced to conclude to.

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