Balance changes and ideas.

[Sixthly]

My input: The direction since 1.1.0 is that all weapons are becoming standardized and no weapon brings anything unique. Everyone seems to want to use every weapon at range, with fast/instant projectile speed, and minimum skill. The previously slow projectile speed of the lucifer cannon introduced more variation to gameplay: how the player aims and shoots, and how the enemy dodges and attacks.

[ViruS]

Well, they had that in the old unvanquished, the fix was hell buggy so it was removed.
@six: Maybe we should keep old luci, and implement the new luci's features into a new gun perhaps?

[danmal]

The suggestions by people who have only played 1.1 are hilarious. Actually play gpp/unvanquished more than a couple of times before suggesting anything.

Lucifer cannon isn't too powerful at all. The charge time is long and it's very easy to miss with the projectile despite it being faster than in 1.1. The long charge time is the biggest issue. It means that the alien can time his attacks quite easily to avoid getting shot. Damage per second is significantly less than in 1.1 as well. I rarely lose to a luci when I'm using a tyrant. The weapon has too many drawbacks. imo luci should be improved in some way instead of weakened.

I think I have posted these before but these are some the changes I would like:

1. Less shotgun pellet spread to make it more useful for a bit longer ranges.

2. Faster pulse rifle projectile speed to make it better at killing aliens and to make it possible to chase aliens.

3. Faster flamer projectile speed and no self burn.

4. Dretch is very easy to kill with the help of dodge and unlagged. Short pounce would help a lot so it would be possible to move unpredictably but still get closer to the human. It would also increase skill ceiling so a skilled dretch could do a lot more. Currently killing a human with it is more based on the skill of the human rather than the skill of the dretch.

5. Dragoon is too strong. I would prefer that s1 vs s1 was balanced with a weaker goon. There shouldn't be such a massive gap in power between the dretch and goon. The pounce spam is just silly. It takes almost no skill to do and is extremely powerful and gives great mobility.

6. Tyrant is too strong. The real issue is the charge. It can be almost instant death to any human and it gives great mobility as well. Even if not using the charge to do damage and use it just for mobility it's still too powerful. It's easy to just charge around a corner and slash a human to death. Because of the mobility it's very hard to do 350 damage to the tyrant before it can escape and heal. Perhaps changing it that it's harder to turn when charging it could work better.

[Saliva]

Khaoz, thanks for the laughs. You did a surprisingly good job misunderstanding the point of almost everything.

@Sixthly: Improved projectile speeds are important because then it's possible to aim with the weapons instead of just spam them and hope for the best. Pulse rifle is the worst of them because it's very easy for an alien to flee before being killed. It would still be very different from a hitscan weapon with a faster projectile speed. If for some reason that isn't different enough then perhaps there could be a limit to the projectile range to make it a short range weapon only.

[UniqPhoeniX]

Everyone who has played GPP & Unv in total for less than 30 hours: stop posting in this thread. (Yes, I have not played Unv yet, but it is still very similar to GPP in all the points I'm going to address)

Saliva: IMO your suggestions would completely eliminate the short range human weapon niche (unless you count psaw...). All weapons shouldn't be the same, they need to have drawbacks. Pulse is very good against alien base, it shouldn't also be very good against aliens. If range is limited as well, it will become another chaingun...
Shotgun & Flamer are very good against aliens at close range, increasing their range would make them viable base killing weapons. I wouldn't mind having flamer particle speed increased if lifetime is decreased though.
I agree with your dretch pounce suggestion. IMO the dretch could also trade some damage for higher HP, it's not a fun class to play against players with excellent aim, especially for newer players.

Also, I think 1 hit kills from Dragoons vs HS1 should be removed (unless the stage system is replaced and helmets can be acquired before the goon). Getting killed nearly instantly without a chance to do anything significant is often very frustrating.

[Saliva]

Uniqphoenix: You are making the same mistake as Khaoz previously. I'm not suggesting to make extreme changes. Of course it wouldn't be interesting if shotgun was like a massdriver or pulse almost hitscan etc.

I said to only increase shotgun effective range a bit. So it's a bit more versatile. It's too limited in GPP imo and mg is a far better weapon.

Pulse rifle is currently effective at short range against aliens and competing with chaingun. Chaingun is a lot better against aliens. The only thing pulse can be better at is against buildings. It would be far more interesting if pulse was somewhat effective at medium range too. It would add to weapon variety. Also pulse is a s2 weapon. It should be more worth using.

Flamer projectile speed would differentiate it more from painsaw. It would have a bit more range but do less damage. I think there is nothing wrong with using flamer against buildings. Painsaw still does a lot more damage so both could be a valid choice depending on the situation.

[seana11]

Also, I think 1 hit kills from Dragoons vs HS1 should be removed (unless the stage system is replaced and helmets can be acquired before the goon). Getting killed nearly instantly without a chance to do anything significant is often very frustrating.

That's because most humans suck at dodging. I know several who are very good at avoiding goons, and it's hard as hell to kll them without dying, even if they only have rifle. They can make anyone seem like a n00b with goon. If dodge gets more use, there will be no problem.

[Khaoz]

Khaoz, thanks for the laughs. You did a surprisingly good job misunderstanding the point of almost everything.

@Sixthly: Improved projectile speeds are important because then it's possible to aim with the weapons instead of just spam them and hope for the best. Pulse rifle is the worst of them because it's very easy for an alien to flee before being killed. It would still be very different from a hitscan weapon with a faster projectile speed. If for some reason that isn't different enough then perhaps there could be a limit to the projectile range to make it a short range weapon only.

I was dead serious.
All of your suggestions are terrible.

First you laugh at everyone who hasn't played 'GPP/Unvanquished' and base all of your opinions on GPP.
Then we find out later you haven't even played Unvanquished.....

If your playstyle with those weapons is to 'Spam and hope for the best' then I think you need more practice with how to use these weapons efficiently. Pulse rifle is a very powerful weapon as is, short range pulse rifle is also woeful (I'm wondering if you are putting in any thought what so ever into any of these suggestions).

Shotgun is awesome at s1 s2 and s3, it's close range and high damage is really strong for 150 creds, you can solo goon and even tyrants if you can dodge well.

I've noticed all of your suggestions are often things newer players complain about "Dragoon is OP!!!, Shotgun is too hard!!!, OMG I Can't hit with pulse!!!, Yea Tyrant is awesome!!!, Oh wait someone else has tyrant... Tyrant is OP!!!!"

How long have you been playing tremulous exactly, and would you call yourself a skilled player?

That's because most humans suck at dodging. I know several who are very good at avoiding goons, and it's hard as hell to kill them without dying, even if they only have rifle. They can make anyone seem like a n00b with goon. If dodge gets more use, there will be no problem.

This is so true. Sometimes people just need more practice and changes are not required.

[Kreative]

I've noticed all of your suggestions are often things newer players complain about "Dragoon is OP!!!, Shotgun is too hard!!!, OMG I Can't hit with pulse!!!, Yea Tyrant is awesome!!!, Oh wait someone else has tyrant... Tyrant is OP!!!!"

Good point. A lot of people do this.

How long have you been playing tremulous exactly, and would you call yourself a skilled player?

This is so true. Sometimes people just need more practice and changes are not required.

One thing to keep in mind; a lot of people are asking for game play that is going to reward them for being higher skill level, and that is great, I am too, however, there should be at least some hope of not getting pounded into the ground if you're a newer player. A tutorial or some tool tips would certainly help, but that's not going to take them all the way. The game play should be easy enough that new players can sort of get the gist of it within one or two games, but yet, if you're of a higher skill level, it would still show.

[killing time]

My preference is that everything should be be extremely difficult, and have a steep learning curve.
Make everything easier, they say, and we will attract more players. Even if that is true, I don't think it is a good idea. If something doesn't require loads of arcane knowledge and finely tuned skills, then to me it is no longer interesting or worth doing.
If someone is new to the game and doesn't want to get killed constantly, it is much more reasonable to go to an empty server with a friend to play, rather than expecting immediate success in a big public game. On an amusing side note, a way that I first learned to play aliens was on this server (I think it was called S11) which had a layout that placed eggs and nodes in the middle of the map with no other structures. Looking back I can say wow, what an awful server, but it was good since it taught me that aliens is the easiest team to play!