Singleplayer or cooperative modes

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FreeSlave
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Singleplayer or cooperative modes

Postby FreeSlave » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:49 pm UTC

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Ishq
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Re: Singleplayer or cooperative modes

Postby Ishq » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:37 pm UTC

In general, I'm in favor of these types of modes:

The most interesting one to me is mission mode. We've been working on adding Lua scripting for maps that would allow anyone to create their own missions on any map. These missions could extend from anything like a campaign to training maps to practice aim, dodging, strafe jumping, etc.
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FreeSlave
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Re: Singleplayer or cooperative modes

Postby FreeSlave » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:42 pm UTC

Clarification about Invasion mode: it does not feature buildables or feature them in very limited amounts. As I said it would be better to enforce players to constantly change their location on the level and the presence of buildables would make this task harder since players could just build the one strong base and sit there which is not very different from tower defense.
Possible solution is to place small outposts (armory+medi+repeater) across the map with only one outpost working at a time (e.g. per wave) so players would come to it and prepare themselves for the next battle. Of course players should be aware which outpost is in working state at the point of time.

The good thing about Invasion mode is its simplicity. The existing maps could be reused for it.

Comparing to other existing games we could say that
Tower defense mode is Sanctum.
Mission mode is any co-operative game where players are advancing through the level from the start to the end with possible mini-quests on their way. Examples are Left 4 Dead and Sven Co-op.
Invasion mode is Killing Floor.
Last edited by FreeSlave on Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:52 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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illwieckz
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Re: Singleplayer or cooperative modes

Postby illwieckz » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:50 pm UTC

There was a kind of “mission server” that was advertised as a “training server”, and it helped to keep some players on server.

By the way, I want to warn about something: we advertised the game or got the game advertised on techie websites (, , etc.) but we never tried to really reach new players and grow up a player base. Our current player base is mainly tech guys who are enjoying themselves watching the project growing-up and being alive, and sometime, play a game. So, even if we seen how the “training server” helped to keep a larger player base so newbie can play some interesting games when waiting for real players (because non-mission games against bot all look the same, the training missions added diversity), we must not lose so much time in developing accessory gameplay. People are already complaining about the development being long, and they are right: waiting is not fun.

So I think it's Ok to make some mission stuff, but not so much. Or, we can have this kind of agenda: introduce enough basic “mission” mechanism to make some mission servers like the training one was, and keep some more-exciting-but-time-consuming “mission” implementation for later, to feed the player base once it has reached a significant size and we want to keep them. So, there is alternate-gameplay development needed to keep the lone player when there is no player base, and there is alternate-gameplay development needed to feed and grow-up an already critical player base.

About missions, there was some experiments on tremulous age. There is for example that tremship map we can reuse if we fix the map the way bots will not stuck themselves. There was also that tremulous siege map we can tweak (the 1.1.2 was released without source, but the 1.1.1 was).

But, there is something we must implement to make this really convenient: map voting and/or gameplay voting. People must be able to join a server to play some missions against bot, then, once enough people joined in, vote for a normal game without having to leave the “mission” server. People had to do that on the training server and it just ended in splitting player base while everyone was online, also, when no one leaved to not take the risk to split-up the player base, people just quit because of the boring nature of training missions, or just their inability to provide the joy of a real human vs. human game.
Last edited by illwieckz on Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:57 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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FreeSlave
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Re: Singleplayer or cooperative modes

Postby FreeSlave » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:00 pm UTC

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illwieckz
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Re: Singleplayer or cooperative modes

Postby illwieckz » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:11 pm UTC

No, they just stuck themselves on their path to the human base, it's like a zombie movie where zombies never attack humans and live their own life far from civilization, such a move can't have success. :tongue:
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FreeSlave
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Re: Singleplayer or cooperative modes

Postby FreeSlave » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:26 pm UTC

Another reason why singleplayer/co-operative modes are important is the lack of competitiveness. It's not so irritating to lose against hordes of AI controlled monsters than constant loosing to pro players. Also in singleplayer and co-operative games you die less, so again less irritation.

The one thing that I liked on tremulous FServer is that even if you were absolute noob you still could kill some bots and have fun (that also led to small deaths/kills ratio which is good). For those who did not play on that server I clarify: it was normal human team (consisting of living players) vs a small amount of living alien players + many alien bots. Alien players were much stronger than alien bots so they could also kill many humans (so again, small deaths/kills ratio).
In standard gameplay you're doomed to always die from claws or bullets of more experienced player and that may kill the whole fun.
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ViruS
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Re: Singleplayer or cooperative modes

Postby ViruS » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:43 am UTC

Funnily enough fuma's done that except a mine dispensing structure before for his 1.1 server

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