Builder is too powerful.

Request new features or present your ideas.
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Comet_
Mantis
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:52 pm UTC

Builder is too powerful.

Postby Comet_ » Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:08 pm UTC

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Firstly, and most importantly, I played a few games this last Sunday and had a good time until someone on the other team became a builder. Normally you would think challenge would go down if they have a builder because they will have one less person in the battle however it had the opposite effect. In fact, it felt like we were playing on a UBP server; a few minutes into the game, humans had two forwards setup and the main defended. When I say forwards I do not mean a single turret or a powered armory, I mean 4-5 turrets often times rocket pods and an armory/medistation combo with a drill. These are no simple investments, and with the starting pool of resources I was wondering how that could even be possible considering each forward was approx 40-50 BP each. However, as the game went on, I found drill after drill after drill spread around the map. Eventually the human menace was knocking at our front door with turrets backing up more turrets and we were still stage one with no way to even kill a single turret.

After that game I found out the strategy the enemy builder was using "Spam drills for free bp". Next map was a medium sized map and the game size was 3v3. You would assume that now that I had found out the strategy I could capitalize on the weaknesses they have when doing it. Nope. I killed 4-5 drills in the beginning of the game with seemingly no benefit (No evos, only momentum, and momentum is an instantaneous jump in power not a gradual one; meaning that until we staged up all the drills killed were essentially useless). And before I knew it, I found myself unable to attack from one side because it was so heavily fortified with turrets that even as a tyrant it would be suicide to try something. We got stage 2 before them, but it had 0 effect considering the bases were already beyond the point where we could feasibly come in and destroy it. Perhaps a solution to this problem is putting drills on a cooldown or capping drills at like 2 or 3? Maybe even lowering the resource collect rate of drills?

I can post a video of a game showcasing this problem if needed.

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Also here is a few problems I've had over the last month:

BUG?: After destroying main base Reactor, the humans rebuilt it in a forward base they had. While it was building, the forward base turrets were active and shooting. This was the opposite effect that any player would want when destroying the Reactor. Perhaps it is me, but I see Reactor/Overmind as priority targets and leaving them undefended, because you wanted to spend all your BP on a forward base that failed, should wind up with you being punished.

Question: Why does the tyrant model (you can see on top right of forums) anatomically have another set of claws? I've always wondered that.
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Viech
Project Head
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Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:50 pm UTC
Location: Berlin

Re: Builder is too powerful.

Postby Viech » Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:19 pm UTC

I'm working on a redesign of buildable limits (both BP and power) that should, in a way, address both issues you mentioned.
Responsible for: Arch Linux package & torrent distribution, Parpax (map), Chameleon (map texture editor), Sloth (material file generator), gameplay design & programming, artistic direction
Bluefire
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:02 pm UTC

Re: Builder is too powerful.

Postby Bluefire » Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:26 pm UTC

You should take a look at the old New Edge forum , Ams and the other devs tried Soooooo many thing to solve this issue, I am sure their are some good ideas!
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ViruS
Granger
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Re: Builder is too powerful.

Postby ViruS » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:46 am UTC

In NS2, the gorge (granger equivalent) specialises in area-effect buildable destruction (bile bomb) and can build its own weak structures using their own personal resources (like evos). However they need to spend quite a bit on evolving into gorge. The humans on the other hand can build without needing resources though they can buy a wielder which allows triple rate building. Only the commander spends team resources (like how it is in unv when you build normally) however. Buying a wielder doesn't increase melee-effective DPS however, which is why it is quite cheap, though it is pretty much an essential item on the forward push to repair armour.

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