Poll: gameplay changes so far

Post any feedback you have about the game here.

Which of the gameplay ideas do you like the most, so far?

Free upgrades
6
12%
Simple momentum
4
8%
Anti-camping
9
18%
Unlocked buildables
5
10%
Construct anywhere
9
18%
Build point pools
4
8%
Removal of stamina
5
10%
Simplified locational damage
7
14%
 
Total votes: 49
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kharnov
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Poll: gameplay changes so far

Postby kharnov » Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:53 am UTC

As the poll question would suggest, pick out the gameplay changes that Norfenstein has implemented so far as part of his gameplay fork. There are a lot of different directions that the gameplay can take, and community feedback is crucial towards determining what the "fun" changes are.

You can view the list of cvars for the changes here, and I wrote basic descriptions for them on the release post.

The other purpose of this thread is to provide some more feedback on these changes, including the ones you don't like. Why don't you like them? How would you propose doing them?
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kharnov
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Re: Poll: gameplay changes so far

Postby kharnov » Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:03 am UTC

Personally, I like all of the changes in some form or another, and I think they would all fit with some tweaking.

My favorite is probably free upgrades, because it allows for much more aggressive gameplay now that you don't lose everything to a simple mistake, and you have more room to experiment with what your team has unlocked.

Simplified locational damage is also great, because it's no longer painful to use the dretch as a new player, while you still get a stealth bonus when attacking from behind. Why not add that to aliens too, so that humans can have a reason to be stealthy? They can already disappear from radar if they keep still long enough.

Being able to build anywhere is also a nice change. If we want to encourage players to expand, why burden them with creep and power? Just let them build without clutter. Build point pools go along well with that.
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0z_
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Re: Poll: gameplay changes so far

Postby 0z_ » Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:25 am UTC

Anti-camping, just voted for

My favorite is probably free upgrades, because it allows for much more aggressive gameplay now that you don't lose everything to a simple mistake, and you have more room to experiment with what your team has unlocked.


Battlesuits, battlesuits everywhere. And Tyrants. Especially Tyrants. Not much more agressive, but much more boring, IMO
Seriously, when you getting advance in evolution, some of previous become useless. That`s not so fun
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GORE
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Re: Poll: gameplay changes so far

Postby GORE » Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:39 am UTC

Needs WAY more testing to give some good feedback. How many games this was tested so far? 3-4 games/maps?
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kharnov
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Re: Poll: gameplay changes so far

Postby kharnov » Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:04 pm UTC

It's been tested for the last few weeks, but some informal feedback so far would be good. Just want to get people's impressions.
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lamefun
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Re: Poll: gameplay changes so far

Postby lamefun » Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:28 pm UTC

0z_ wrote:Battlesuits, battlesuits everywhere. And Tyrants. Especially Tyrants. Not much more agressive, but much more boring, IMO
Seriously, when you getting advance in evolution, some of previous become useless. That`s not so fun


Being forced to camp is not fun either.

And please remove "can't evolve enemy is near so cool" and allow builders to defend.
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krtv`
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Re: Poll: gameplay changes so far

Postby krtv` » Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:11 pm UTC

i haven't played enough games to really give a good opinion on all of these, but hear's my initial thoughts.

free upgrades: while i assumed at first this would be a train wreck and just not fun wen first approved, i was very proven wrong after my first game with it. i loved the change in pace it brought to the game, and how newer players were a lot more willing to take risks and go out. the unlocks need to be adjusted a bit i think, but that's higher level and can be discussed later.

anti-camp: a good start, i think there needs to be a bigger reward for kills away from a base, but at the same time, i still like the idea of setting up and rotating between different offensive (small) forward bases.

simple momentum: i like how it sped up the change of pace of the game, but at the same time it took away a lot of motivation to build (wasn't that much before tho tbh). changes to building that promote fast paced gameplay around multiple parts of the map would be needed.

unlocked buildables: not sure, while it definitely simplifies building, and allows for more balanced early game when aliens get maras, i still feel like it's very bland and linear. i think it may be worth looking into a research based system for building like other rts games (dumbed down a lot though, simple is good), especially with the induction of free upgrades, to keep some sort of economy system going.

build-point pools: like this a lot, haven't played around with it much myself, but i could notice the more instantaneous results that occurred from building, which again, was great for making the pace of the game faster.

simplified locational damage: definitely thank this was a much needed change, the day of floor head bite dretch is finally over!!! but really this brings the difficulty of aliens down a lot, dretches no longer have to be played in a very careful and awkward fashion to reach it's max potential, and makes flanking a much more interesting mechanism as well. perhaps it could be expanded upon a bit more, but for now this is a great change.

construct anywhere: really have no idea how i feel about this one, there really hasn't been enough of a building initiative to see how it actually turns out, i think i like the idea on paper though.

removal of stamina: this change i am really not a fan of. it contradicts a lot of things, the previous changes set out to fix, such as making the pace of the game faster but making humans slower??? also considering headbites are no longer a thing, jumping infinitely doesn't help much either, and bunnyhopping really isn't a viable movement option for humans due to the geometry of most maps, and the nature of the game itself.

this may be biased as i have played for quite a while and gotten a pretty good feel on how to move effectively using the old sprint/stamina system, but it feels as if a vital mechanical aspect in what more experienced players could use to leverage the game (or rather, skirmishes) in their favor has been removed. i feel like not being able to sprint and move effectively seriously limits what i can do early game, even after trying to adapt to the change and attempt to alter my movements, in early skirmishers aliens have an impeccable advantage, and when i could usually counter pressure with pressure and give the aliens a choice between defending or going for my base, due to this change, now it's very hard to have any hope of putting pressure onto aliens early, and humans are kind of forced to just take what happens to them early game and hope for the best.

i think i could understand where this change came from in attempt to simplify movement, as it does take quite a while to learn how to effectively move, but i do not think this is the way to go with it.

overall, i think all these changes with the exception of stamina seem like a good start. i'd really like to play a game with stamina turned back on and the rest of the changes and see how it turns out.
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Comet_
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Re: Poll: gameplay changes so far

Postby Comet_ » Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:32 pm UTC

Would really love to actually test some of these with you guys. Haven't gotten the chance yet other than when I play by my lonesome... These are my reactions to the changes that I can make a decision on and also some suggestions.

Free Upgrades: I do and don't like this change.
Pros:
Faster paced gameplay
Faster games
Makes campers lose horribly
Humans are ridiculously strong early

Cons:
Aliens become too powerful late game
Every stage progressed makes previous iterations essentially useless (Why get a MD when you can Luci with no penalty for team killing or killing yourself with splash)
No penalties for anything... ever. (Touched above)
Team with better movement is winner (Aliens usually)
Game becomes which team can get control of map, not which team is better
Once trapped in base, forever trapped in base
Building aspect feels like its gone


Simple Suggestions:
1. Make every alien/weapon have a cooldown (Norf mentioned this and I agree)
2. Change style to class based game where each alien has different qualities and usages. (Even with cool downs, nothing gets solved in terms of game play. People will still be careful with the big expensive aliens and weapons and there is no stopping it)
3. Limit number of aliens and humans so that only 1 could be Tyrant and 1 Lucifer.
4. Individual Unlocks (Similar to how classes were unlocked in Star Wars BattleFront, getting kills allows for new classes to play that are slight upgrades from the original class yet focus on a different aspect of game play. IE. Tyrant could be last unlock, tanky class but low damage or very low attack speed)


Removal of Stamina: Best change and also the least noticeable! Much needed change in my opinion.

Pros:
Humans are no longer limited by stamina and can freely move without constraint
No more 3 speed movement (Walk, run, sprint. Too confusing :bugeyes: ), movement style changed to a simple duo; walk and run
Humans can now bunny-hop freely finally giving them a good and interesting movement mechanics (Paired with locational damage change there can be no issue)

Cons:
Human still "jogs" places. A normal running speed buff would make the game faster paced and more balanced.


Simple Suggestions:
1. Speed up human's run speed a bit more and keep the change. :thumbup:
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lamefun
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Re: Poll: gameplay changes so far

Postby lamefun » Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:11 am UTC

Comet_ wrote:3. Limit number of aliens and humans so that only 1 could be Tyrant and 1 Lucifer.


Please, no... people would just keep yelling at each other and arguing who gets to play the tyrant/lucifer cannon.
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Comet_
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Re: Poll: gameplay changes so far

Postby Comet_ » Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:33 am UTC

lamefun wrote:
Comet_ wrote:3. Limit number of aliens and humans so that only 1 could be Tyrant and 1 Lucifer.


Please, no... people would just keep yelling at each other and arguing who gets to play the tyrant/lucifer cannon.


Agreed. However it seems just as, if not less, ridiculous as having every person on the team being a Tyrant or Lucifer.

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