Marauder balls

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janev
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Marauder balls

Postby janev » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:56 am UTC

Carrying on the conversation from the marauder concept art thread, what say you to some epic marauder balls and bowling for some humans?

The general idea is to give the marauder a cannonball_esque secondary attack. The model looks like it could curl up into a pretty deadly ball, and a ball attack would seem to be more realistic than shooting lightningbolts out of his arse, so this would fit it quite nicely from logical point of view.

My original thought was for the marauder to gather speed by strafe/walljumping/pouncing? and to curl up when it has enough speed/ sees a target. In its ball shape it would do damage based on its momentum. There are ways to make this even more interesting. You could for example have it as a "entering combat move" so it slows/stuns/knocks around humans it hits, or by presenting a "hard target" it could have increased resistance to weapon fire.

From my initial description Khaos had visualized it in a different, equally interesting way and it's also worth mentioning. His idea is that the marauders second attack essentially turns it into a bowling ball that moves of its own accord. [video=youtube;TctysXyh72w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TctysXyh72w[/video]

So give us your thoughts guys and girls. Is this something we are interested it? If so how should it be designed? Can the ball move under its own power, how devastating should it be? Should it bounce? Any other general thoughts. Thanks for reading this far.

Earlier IRC discussion: http://pastebin.com/Y23L0G9n
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Ishq
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Re: Marauder balls

Postby Ishq » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:17 pm UTC

It's an interesting concept for sure. It doesn't seem unbalanced if I think about it. In fact, its mechanics work similar to how I envisioned Tyrant trample's mechanics to work (go fast, difficult to change direction, skid stop). I assume the mechanics are similar to the samus ball in Metroid?
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Khaoz
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Re: Marauder balls

Postby Khaoz » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:40 pm UTC

Here's the discussion on the IRC about the idea
(05:43:28 PM) Khaos: Yep, new marauder skill should be this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TctysXyh72w
(05:45:17 PM) janev: it would be different
(05:48:01 PM) Khaos: I just read the idea on that thread and instantly thought of Majoras Mask
(05:48:20 PM) janev: I dunno if it would be too close to the goon though, it occured to me after suggesting it
(05:49:59 PM) janev: I was thinking more of a cannonball kind of thing
(05:50:45 PM) janev: like either you use the speed you built up from strafejumping, or pounce
(05:50:56 PM) janev: but cant keep up a roll for a length of time
(05:51:14 PM) janev: when you are satisfied with your speed you curl up and can damage stuff
(05:52:47 PM) Khaos: ^ this actually seems like a pretty cool idea
(06:14:53 PM) `Ishq: Khaos: janev: Yeah, rolling can be a very interesting mechanic
(06:15:10 PM) `Ishq: Worth playing around with.
(06:15:28 PM) Khaos: but yeah I can just imagine getting heaps of momentum, then curling up into a ball and crashing into humans + structures
(06:15:44 PM) kharnov: it makes more sense for a marauder than somehow having a tiny alien generating enormous bolts of lightning
(06:15:44 PM) Khaos: but we'd need to give the marauder a way to increase it's momentum
(06:16:03 PM) kharnov: hm
(06:16:06 PM) `Ishq: And roll up given Osris's model
(06:16:19 PM) Khaos: currently you can reach really high speed from just strafe jumping a few times
(06:16:38 PM) Khaos: maybe the more you walljump the more your speed increases? idk
(06:16:56 PM) janev: isn't that the case already?
(06:17:03 PM) kharnov: what if it worked like, say, momentum was gained through rapidly walljumping around, and this raises a charge bar. when you hit secondary attack, you slam downwards in the direction you're looking in, and the damage is dependent on how long you powered the roll up
(06:17:28 PM) Khaos: Not really, you can get more momentum from strafejumping than walljumping
(06:17:36 PM) kharnov: that can be altered
(06:18:22 PM) Khaos: but yeah it'd be cool to be jumping through some halls off the walls and then just curl up to smash through humans, then to continue jumping through
(06:18:43 PM) janev: would the ball be able to bounce?
(06:18:48 PM) kharnov: i like that idea
(06:18:58 PM) kharnov: we'd need better physics though
(06:19:02 PM) Khaos: mmm
(06:19:34 PM) `Ishq: We only need basic friction
(06:19:48 PM) `Ishq: To simulate psuedo-realistic ball motion.
(06:20:17 PM) kharnov: heh. ball motion.
(06:21:51 PM) Khaos: mmmmm ball motion
(06:22:39 PM) janev: it's pseudo realistic.


Also this is another example of the rolling up into a ball and damaging enemies. (would be hard to control etc)

[video=youtube;njGaQn9--nw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njGaQn9--nw[/video]
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velociostrich
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Re: Marauder balls

Postby velociostrich » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:54 pm UTC

@Khaoz, it'd be helpful if you could paraphrase the chat log.
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janev
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Re: Marauder balls

Postby janev » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:42 pm UTC

The droidekas from starwars also roll but ofc they are not melee units. They are interesting for the sake of the rolling model. [video=youtube;XjSQFW-aPQU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjSQFW-aPQU[/video]
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Ishq
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Re: Marauder balls

Postby Ishq » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:20 pm UTC

How would 1st person maraball look? Metroid did this by going into third person, but that doesn't seem like an fps.
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janev
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Re: Marauder balls

Postby janev » Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:14 pm UTC

I would assume for the sake of gameplay the camera would not roll with the model. Maybe change the height of the point of view and have an animation that rolls across the screen much like the alien chompers? The animation would go away when you disable drawgun, and look something like: Legs, head, body. Repeat.
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Anomalous
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Re: Marauder balls

Postby Anomalous » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:18 pm UTC

janev wrote:I would assume for the sake of gameplay the camera would not roll with the model.


Agreed. The rolling should be animation only.

Maybe change the height of the point of view and have an animation that rolls across the screen much like the alien chompers? The animation would go away when you disable drawgun, and look something like: Legs, head, body. Repeat.


Could be tricky… set the viewpoint slightly down and just above the marauder (but within the bbox)? We want to avoid clipping issues here.

Some control over direction (not too much; tilt a little left or right) would be useful. Some loss of speed on collision; slow enough, or with a collision sufficiently far from side-on, and the marauder will unroll itself.
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Ishq
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Re: Marauder balls

Postby Ishq » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:32 pm UTC

janev wrote:I would assume for the sake of gameplay the camera would not roll with the model. Maybe change the height of the point of view and have an animation that rolls across the screen much like the alien chompers? The animation would go away when you disable drawgun, and look something like: Legs, head, body. Repeat.


Yes, the having the camera stay steady is a given. I'm talking about an alternative method to immerse the gamer given that we don't want to trip up our players. Having rolling choppers isn't a bad idea, and that could definitely work. The only thing is, when a mara is in a ball, it doesn't make sense to have body parts flailing around... In fact, Unless it rolls itself into a ball backwards, the mara would not be able to see anything at all. Of course, if it does roll itself into a ball backwards, it would explain why it can see its arms and legs...but, again, that does not sound like a very efficient way to roll.
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velociostrich
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Re: Marauder balls

Postby velociostrich » Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:50 pm UTC

Ishq wrote:How would 1st person maraball look? Metroid did this by going into third person, but that doesn't seem like an fps.


I think the third-person route is probably easiest for the player (and I think what I would prefer), but it immediately would detract from the game's status as a competitive FPS as you'd have the normal issues of the third-person camera revealing more than the first-person camera. To retain a competitive status, you'd either have to make an option to disable the rolling attack (either removing it or substituting it with something else), or devise some kind of camera model that would not allow you to see around corners (which would likely be nigh-impossible).

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